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D nuts I would love to know how you are going to build a sbc and make 500 hp, turn 7000 r p m with out using ( your words ) exotic parts or I assume the after market world is what your trying to say !! If you can do that with a factory motor and no (exotic) after market parts you would be a real bad ass dude !!! I got a bunch of motors you can build for me ,, no joke dude !!!! Not trying to sound like a know all type because I learn new things every day , you might be on to something that is special !!!! Teach me how please !!!! Sin . Country boy
Yes that's what I meant by exotic....was aftermarket. 400 SBC, a set of ported and polished vortecs with screw in studs, bump up the compression and run a nice mechanical roller....and 500 HP can be done. Also you don't have to spin a 400 to 7k in fact I advise against.it.....they're torque makers more than they are top end winders. Although some folks have swapped the cranks over to a 350 crank for more rpms, then you can spin one if that's your.cup of tea. I'm more of a low rpm gear head.
I've also seen a 350 SBC built with aftermarket heads and internals that made 650 HP but it was a 13.5:1 alcohol race engine. IIRC it was a cast production block.
Yeah I can see getting 375 to 400 horse from that ! But again you may end up closer to what you said 500 but it may dyno, a little short of 500 !! 500 horse takes a good bit of cash and a good set of after market heads and a pretty aggressive cam shaft and after market light weight pistons and some fire in the holes via m.s.d or Mallory electronics , I'm not a chevy guy but I don't think you get their with stock vortecs heads ! But anyway you still are ending up with plenty of (exotic) after market stuff ! But sounds like you got a pretty good idea thats practical and not drain your bank account to bad !! A 351w would be what I would build for about the same money and it will run like a raped ape !!!! Different opinions but similar results !!!
Whoa dude where did you come from? Who cares if you think the Pinto is better than the Vega. Well maybe you do. Yeah you're right I don't comprehend to irrelevant b.s. such as what you have spewed. No self.righousness here, I'm just not afraid to call a spade a spade.
The point you missed was that I thoroughly supported the SBC over the 351 in a previous post using a long list of achievements over a long time frame based on thread topic. My counter was to point out a GM failure using the Vega as one example. We could also use the Corvair as another.
This is what I wrote:
What the die hard Ford supporters fail to acknowledge is the dominance of the Gen 1 GM SBC that has made it legendary! From 1955 through 2008 is the longest production engine in history. At one point it has been said the 80% of the aftermarket performance industry parts were sold for the SBC. These are the facts that can't be changed. Ford dominance ended with the flathead V8, and was even portrayed in American Gaffatti when Bob Falfa was beating John Milner.
My Ford engines have been the 2300 in a 78 Pinto, and 83 Ranger. Not a lot of power, but what a reliable engine. Next I had a 87 460 F250 that had awesome power, but if the job was more than 80 miles from home I had to get gas daily. Next I had a 90 F150 300 straight 6 that I really loved. A 94 F150 with a 302 that I just recently gave to my daughter. Now I have a 01 F150 4.6 (2 Pinto motors) with 90,000 on the clock I've got to make last until 2020. I can't wait to get the new 6spd.
As for the 351: Dad had one in a 70 Ranchero (Cleveland) that was pretty fast. Mom had a 72 Gran Torino with a Windsor brandnew. I rode in a friend 71 Mach 1 that was really fast. Was it as good as GM SBC? Maybe, but history, use on longevity say otherwise. By the early 80's Ford had phased this engine out in cars, and it became a truck engine, and they stuck with the 302 in Mustangs (I had an 84 GT brandnew). So any real objective comparision can only conclude that the SBC was more widely used, and modified, therefore it must be given the nod up!
The point you missed was that I thoroughly supported the SBC over the 351 in a previous post using a long list of achievements over a long time frame based on thread topic. My counter was to point out a GM failure using the Vega as one example. We could also use the Corvair as another.
This is what I wrote:
What the die hard Ford supporters fail to acknowledge is the dominance of the Gen 1 GM SBC that has made it legendary! From 1955 through 2008 is the longest production engine in history. At one point it has been said the 80% of the aftermarket performance industry parts were sold for the SBC. These are the facts that can't be changed. Ford dominance ended with the flathead V8, and was even portrayed in American Gaffatti when Bob Falfa was beating John Milner.
My Ford engines have been the 2300 in a 78 Pinto, and 83 Ranger. Not a lot of power, but what a reliable engine. Next I had a 87 460 F250 that had awesome power, but if the job was more than 80 miles from home I had to get gas daily. Next I had a 90 F150 300 straight 6 that I really loved. A 94 F150 with a 302 that I just recently gave to my daughter. Now I have a 01 F150 4.6 (2 Pinto motors) with 90,000 on the clock I've got to make last until 2020. I can't wait to get the new 6spd.
As for the 351: Dad had one in a 70 Ranchero (Cleveland) that was pretty fast. Mom had a 72 Gran Torino with a Windsor brandnew. I rode in a friend 71 Mach 1 that was really fast. Was it as good as GM SBC? Maybe, but history, use on longevity say otherwise. By the early 80's Ford had phased this engine out in cars, and it became a truck engine, and they stuck with the 302 in Mustangs (I had an 84 GT brandnew). So any real objective comparision can only conclude that the SBC was more widely used, and modified, therefore it must be given the nod up!
I also gave a nod up to the sbc even though I am Ford guy. I guess that is not good enough for some posters. I guess they want me to completely diss the Ford and jump on the Chevy bandwagon like so many hands off people do.
I guess because I am not a Chevy hater it confuses some people.
You fail to mention one important piece of history ,,,,,,, you say chevy engine was dominant in all those past years back than , but never mentioned the ford thunderbolt 427 that spanked all others for years on the super stock class and left chevy in the dust !!!! I think it's all a matter of opinion when you post your comments and I respect all other opinions !!! And I up the anti with some pure facts too ,, truth is I will never be convinced that chevy motors are better then fords or mopar, for that matter it's all about a persons opinion , and living 5 miles from a drag strip and spending a lot of time their allows me to give a good opinion what I seen over many years !!! So you will never convince me that chevy is the best !!! Not even close !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Location: The Circle City. Sometimes NE of Bagdad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country boy 152537
it's all about a persons opinion , and living 5 miles from a drag strip and spending a lot of time their allows me to give a good opinion what I seen over many years !!! So you will never convince me that chevy is the best !!! Not even close !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You fail to mention one important piece of history ,,,,,,, you say chevy engine was dominant in all those past years back than , but never mentioned the ford thunderbolt 427 that spanked all others for years on the super stock class and left chevy in the dust !!!! I think it's all a matter of opinion when you post your comments and I respect all other opinions !!! And I up the anti with some pure facts too ,, truth is I will never be convinced that chevy motors are better then fords or mopar, for that matter it's all about a persons opinion , and living 5 miles from a drag strip and spending a lot of time their allows me to give a good opinion what I seen over many years !!! So you will never convince me that chevy is the best !!! Not even close !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's just be objective for a moment and think about the title of the thread?
Here's why the SBC gets the nod in my book. The 350 was introduced in the 67 model year in the SS Camaro with a 295 HP Version, and then in 70 they introduced the LT-1, Then along came the L82 until 80 which was low compression, but at least had a decent cam. Then in 85 the released the L98, and in 86 started putting aluminum heads followed by roller cams in 87. The 92 LT1 maybe Gen II, but is so similar it really wasn't that much different and a lot does interchange. It finish with the L31 Vortec in the grocery getters which the injected 351 W's compared well in the early to mid 90's.
To me, the Cleveland will always be the remembered badass of the 70's, and I this the 71 Boss 351 is a more powerful engine than the LT-1 at the time. However, it was retired in 74, and the W, and later the M took it's place. It never saw a production performance application of any significance after, and died like the Gen 1 SBC when the Triton came out.
Therefore, this continued use of the SBC 350, huge aftermarket performance market, and huge following clearly give it the overall edge in the thread topic. To make a blanket statement Ford is better than GM, or visa versa is an error in judgement IMHO. You mentioned the 427, and it was badass. I have a friend with a 63 Galaxie (learned from Kounts Kustoms was named after space race) with a factory 427 dual quad Carter AFB and it is badass. Last year here in Reno at Hot August Nights I saw my first all aluminum ZL-1 69 Camaro. Only 69 of these were made, and the guy had it since he was 18.
Point, we're fricking American's, and ought to be able to admire anything made in America. I beat a 71 Cuda 440 with my Vega when I was a kid. he opened his trunk, and asked me to go again. I lost that second race. Should I not admire Mopar either? My dad was California state C gas champion in 1960 with a Kaiser Henry J, and a Mopar 352 I think it was. To think of the advances we've made is awesome. My stock Corvette runs my dads 1960 index, and get's 30 MPG.
Not trying to change your mind, but give you an idea why some of us who love both give it to the SBC.
That's a good point !! You named lots of chevy engines and noted a few bad ass ford motors too ! But are you saying because the 350 was mass produced and tons of them laying around in junked chevy cars and trucks thus making used parts cheap and it been around for a long time makes it a winner for you ??? I hear that from chevy guys all the time but does that make them better then ford or mopar ??? I always said quality is better then quantity !!! The reason you don't see tons of ford motors laying around all over junk yards is because they are still on the road running not laying around in worn out chevy Junkers !!!!
The junk yards around here can't keep enough chevy parts in stock , like the chevy overdrive transmissions in SUV and trucks , you know the ones with the plastic gear parts in them ..... Lol ... My point is this ... If you make a great product that last and performs well then you don't go belly up and beg to be bailed out !!!!!
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