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Old 03-17-2010, 12:04 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 3,417,727 times
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Older generation automatics sap power. That is a fact.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,362 posts, read 27,507,590 times
Reputation: 6534
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
Glen Beck has nothing to do with politics, he is just a buffoon that spouts crap for entertainment.

Post #85 has nothing to do with politics.

Back to cars, if you please.
I think you should listen to your own advice since you did bring him up in the first place.

BTW, you just made a political statement!

Back to cars, please (but you weren't doing all that well in that subject, anyway).
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:13 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 3,417,727 times
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Fuel economy test manual vs automatic transmission

Some pretty interesting stuff in here on the topic.

I especially like how it talks about manuals requiring more skill.

That may be a clue.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:18 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 3,417,727 times
Reputation: 538
Manual versus automatic transmission

Nice little comparison chart.

It just matters what you want.

If you want ease of use, more cost, more weight, then choose an automatic.

If you want more control, more efficiency, better fuel economy, then choose a manual.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:25 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 3,417,727 times
Reputation: 538
From: Manual & Automatic Transmission - Tech, Overview - Kit Car Magazine

{So, which transmission ...? Automatic or manual? Both make sense depending on your usage. Both make the driving experience enjoyable. As William Shakespeare might say, "To thine own self be true." And if he were Mario Shakespeare, he might have said, "To thine own CAR be true."}

That is the bottom line, get what you want.

I will stick with the stick, because I enjoy being engaged in my driving.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,362 posts, read 27,507,590 times
Reputation: 6534
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
Manual versus automatic transmission

Nice little comparison chart.

It just matters what you want.

If you want ease of use, more cost, more weight, then choose an automatic.

If you want more control, more efficiency, better fuel economy, then choose a manual.
Interesting chart. You are free to own any car you want with a manual transmission. I will stick with automatics.

BTW, I deleted your very rude DM to me. Don't you have anything better to do than insult City-Data members?
If you could debate in a civilized manner, I would appreciate it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:57 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,968,967 times
Reputation: 2830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
You forget that I also like '60s/early '70s muscle cars.
...And they're not exactly curve eaters either.

BMW M3 (any incarnation), Nissan Skyline (any R32 and up), Subaru Impreza, Mitsu EVO, Ferrari ....anything really, AM DBS, a few Alfa Romeos and surprising maybe, but: Euro hot hatches, they're not fast on the straight but sometimes they'll keep up, even with supercars in the corners.

All of these are great curve attackers.

I'm sure an auto will do if you want to do the 1/4th mile high school playground thing, but even the beloved (though utterly incomprehensible) NASCAR use manuals.

Look at what they use in racing, it should be a good indication of what works.

I have a friend who does Rallying, and his first car, a 170hp, 1600cc FWD, Manual box, Peugeot 206 would take on any muscle car in the twistys and win.

The end point is though, that you argue for the Automatic, without even having driven a Manual, so in essence, you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't doubt you have fun with your Auto trans cars, but you have no idea how much better they are with manuals.

Driving any road with any kind of corner, and the manual will be faster, safer and more fun (if you know how to work them).

Dragracing? Hell, my grandmother could do that.
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Old 03-17-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,362 posts, read 27,507,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
...And they're not exactly curve eaters either.
They are not meant to be although some did quite well in curves. Like a '68 Plymouth Barracuda 340S.

Quote:
BMW M3 (any incarnation), Nissan Skyline (any R32 and up), Subaru Impreza, Mitsu EVO, Ferrari ....anything really, AM DBS, a few Alfa Romeos and surprising maybe, but: Euro hot hatches, they're not fast on the straight but sometimes they'll keep up, even with supercars in the corners.
I don't care for those cars. I prefer V-8 '60s/early '70s muscle cars with tons of torque.

Quote:
All of these are great curve attackers.
Where I live, there are not many curves, so I don't really need sports-car type handling.

Quote:
I'm sure an auto will do if you want to do the 1/4th mile high school playground thing, but even the beloved (though utterly incomprehensible) NASCAR use manuals.
Drag racing is hardly "high school playground thing." You have to be a very good driver, be able to shift well and have good reaction times. Being something like 0.01 seconds slow could make you lose a race.

Quote:
I have a friend who does Rallying, and his first car, a 170hp, 1600cc FWD, Manual box, Peugeot 206 would take on any muscle car in the twistys and win.
And I have friends who own 11-second muscle cars which would blow away that Peugeot on a straight road. What point are you trying to make? What does that have to do with automatic and manual transmissions.

Quote:
The end point is though, that you argue for the Automatic, without even having driven a Manual, so in essence, you don't know what you're talking about.
I may enjoy a manual but I doubt it. Automatics are the most sensible for me. Especially living in a city with a lot of people.

Quote:
I don't doubt you have fun with your Auto trans cars, but you have no idea how much better they are with manuals.
That is an opinion, not necessarily a fact.

Quote:
Driving any road with any kind of corner, and the manual will be faster, safer and more fun (if you know how to work them).
As I said above, 90% of the streets out here are quite straight. Really no need for a manual transmission (for me).

Quote:
Dragracing? Hell, my grandmother could do that.
Grandmothers can learn to drive a manual, too.
Drag racing means not just dragging but winning! I can run a marathon, too, but I don't think I would win it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,968,967 times
Reputation: 2830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Drag racing is hardly "high school playground thing." You have to be a very good driver, be able to shift well and have good reaction times. Being something like 0.01 seconds slow could make you lose a race.
Shift well... Well... that's where the Manual transmission come in, isn't it?

I don't think it takes a good driver to sit at a set of lights and stomp on the go fast when it turns green, then let the car do the rest (as with an Automatic), it takes good reaction. Now, it doesn't hurt to know how to drive a car if it all goes **** up, but that's another story.

I saw a tv show where the guy hosting it got a 2 hour course on how to drive a drag racer (some top fuel looking thing), where you had to have the revs at a certain level, then drop the clutch at start, from there it geared itself (two gears). He had decent reactions, so he actually got up to competitive times within those two hours. Same guy also did some track racing in another program and totalled an Audi.

I'll agree that Drag racing takes some skill if you got a Manual transmission, with an auto it takes good reaction.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
And I have friends who own 11-second muscle cars which would blow away that Peugeot on a straight road. What point are you trying to make? What does that have to do with automatic and manual transmissions.
That you need a manual to do any real driving, I don't think going forward on a straight road is any good measure of driving experience. But even then, it's far more rewarding to manage to get the shiftpoints just right, and perform the change seamlessly than just sitting back and stomp a pedal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
I may enjoy a manual but I doubt it. Automatics are the most sensible for me. Especially living in a city with a lot of people.
That wasn't what was under discussion though, was it?
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,362 posts, read 27,507,590 times
Reputation: 6534
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Shift well... Well... that's where the Manual transmission come in, isn't it?

I don't think it takes a good driver to sit at a set of lights and stomp on the go fast when it turns green, then let the car do the rest (as with an Automatic), it takes good reaction. Now, it doesn't hurt to know how to drive a car if it all goes **** up, but that's another story.

I saw a tv show where the guy hosting it got a 2 hour course on how to drive a drag racer (some top fuel looking thing), where you had to have the revs at a certain level, then drop the clutch at start, from there it geared itself (two gears). He had decent reactions, so he actually got up to competitive times within those two hours. Same guy also did some track racing in another program and totalled an Audi.

I'll agree that Drag racing takes some skill if you got a Manual transmission, with an auto it takes good reaction.
I meant drag racing with an automatic but manually shifting it. Usually, the best times are done with manual shifting an automatic. And, contrary to what you claim, it's not just stomping on the accelerator and let the car do the rest. The driver has to upshift at the best point. If he shifts too early, it will hurt his 1/4 mile time and if he upshifts too late it will also hurt the 1/4 mile time, not to mention the danger over overrevving the engine.

Quote:
That you need a manual to do any real driving, I don't think going forward on a straight road is any good measure of driving experience. But even then, it's far more rewarding to manage to get the shiftpoints just right, and perform the change seamlessly than just sitting back and stomp a pedal.
That is pretty much an opinion. There are many people who consider their automatic-equipped car as a real driving experience.

Quote:
That wasn't what was under discussion though, was it?
Maybe not, but neither was a Peugeot VS a muscle car.
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