Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-06-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Full time RV"er
2,404 posts, read 6,553,744 times
Reputation: 1497

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman View Post
There are actually many jobs which could be done by "native" British, or US people, but, we have aspirations, and see these menial jobs as "beneath us" that's why immigrant labour is filling these roles.


Also, "this economy" has only been like this for a couple of years.
Previous to that, we were in a boom cycle. Everyone pinned their jobs, their mortgages, loans etc around these standards.
These times are now gone, and we have to make do and mend. This is the true test of a country's people.

So far, they're being tested, and the verdict is "whiner"



Fighter1, I'm not sure you are on the same planet ?
You do not need a licence to drive "your" vehicle, you need a licence to show you are capable, and competent to drive "a" vehicle.
The theory behind this is to ensure that all drivers are educated to the same standard, and are not a danger to themselves, and others.
Your vehicle need to be insured, in case your negligence causes someone else financial loss, and you are unable to compensate them.
It requires to be kept in good order, as a safety issue. Not a PITA for the owner, or a money generating exercise.

Why don't some of you people who are moaning about it get off your asses and do something about it ?
Why don't you rebel against the current administration, start a revolution, and overthrow them !
Then, you can scrap all red lights, speed limits, and various other things which impinge on "your rights"

Let anarchy reign.
Why not do away with taxes, and courts, the police !
Yeah, and lets see how long it lasts...................................

You just can't fix stupid.
Again READ MY post . I am doing as are many others are doing , we did get off of our asses. I have not had a License or registration plates on any of my vehicles for over 22 yrs now , thats when I first got EDUCATED in what my rights were and did something about it as you recommend. Now when I read of some one complaining I refer them to the site's where they can learn as I did ( if you take the time to READ). As to being on the same planet as you are , I assure you I am I just don't do the follow the leader thing , I have a brain and find it interesting when you really use it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-06-2010, 07:01 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,113,448 times
Reputation: 6716
Fighter1,

Is this what you are referring too?

Alternate Realities: A Constitutional Right to Drive Cars
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,591,218 times
Reputation: 9975
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
That is one of the reasons I hate Texas with a passion. It is a horrible police state, even worse than Arizona.
Worse than Radarzona?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Full time RV"er
2,404 posts, read 6,553,744 times
Reputation: 1497
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
Fighter1,

Is this what you are referring too?

Alternate Realities: A Constitutional Right to Drive Cars
No just type in Right to drive , it will show case "LAW" where the right has been challenged and up held our right 5 sites below the one you referenced, the one by the special police officers report.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 4,262,590 times
Reputation: 1958
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
I think you need to go back through a few more times.
maybe you should start with that critical first time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2010, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,349,894 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
maybe you should start with that critical first time.

You can't tell, but I'm giggling inside.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2010, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,349,894 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighter 1 View Post
Again READ MY post . I am doing as are many others are doing , we did get off of our asses. I have not had a License or registration plates on any of my vehicles for over 22 yrs now , thats when I first got EDUCATED in what my rights were and did something about it as you recommend. Now when I read of some one complaining I refer them to the site's where they can learn as I did ( if you take the time to READ). As to being on the same planet as you are , I assure you I am I just don't do the follow the leader thing , I have a brain and find it interesting when you really use it.

I do so hope you get pulled over soon and you can tell the nice officer that the state has no right to require you to have a license or registration.

I'm sure he will extend you the right to remain silent, but that anything you say may be used against you, and that you have the right to an attorney, and if you cannot afford one, one will be provided for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2010, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,051 posts, read 11,556,528 times
Reputation: 1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
No thanks.

Soon enough there will be recording devices/receivers strategically placed all over cities and towns. Everyones plates will be recorded whenever possible/visible and fed into databases for geographical plotting and statistical analysis. The recordings of a single plate number can be brought up in a number of seconds. All of the checkpoints it was detected at are instantly tallied and easily plotted.
Once this information is set to real time, it can also be used to track your time between checkpoints, and therefore to calculate your speed, thereby being used for the issuance of speeding tickets without ever actually clocking your speed!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2010, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,349,894 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
It takes more than just a quick read to understand it.
Here's an extended read for you. I was bored tonight, so I thought I would address this.

Fair warning, this might be a boring post for some of you.



For anyone curious, here are the 4 cases that all these insane "right to drive people" pull from -








Chicago Motor Coach v Chicago 169 NE 22


"Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with the public interest and convenience.




Applicable part is highlighted.





Thompson v Smith 154 SE 579

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."


At will - they can't arbitrarily deny the right, but they can require competency tests. Not qualifying for a license, insurance, etc., does not fall under "at will".


Kent v Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 125

"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment."


Same as above.



Schactman v Dulles, 96 App D.C. 287, 293[/SIZE]

"Undoubtedly the right of locomotion, the right to remove from one place to another according to inclination, is an attribute of personal liberty, and the right, ordinarily, of free transit from or through the territory of any State is a right secured by the 14th Amendment and by other provisions of the Constitution."



Again, due process. Nothing prohibits the state from requiring tests or placing other restrictions on driving, as long as that process is equal for all citizens (14th Amendment Due Process Clause).








Now, to boil it down even further, the people that love to throw the Constitution about to support their perceived "rights" use the 10th Amendment as justification.

10th Amendment -

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Driver's licenses come from the state, not the federal, government.

According to the above amendment, the federal Constitution doesn't apply to state action as long as -

1) The Constitution doesn't grant the federal government the power at question (it doesn't in regards to DL's).
2) The Constitution doesn't prohibit the states from the power at question (again, it doesn't in regard to licensing driving).
3) The issue at hand doesn't violate a specific provision of the Constitution.


The most common argument that a driver's license violates a specific provision of the Constitution is the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.


14th Amendment Due Process Clause

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



Now, here is where it gets interesting.

In one of the first tests of the new 14th Amendment, the Slaughter-House Cases, here is what Justice Miller said -

"The next observation is more important in view of the arguments of counsel in the present case. It is, that the distinction between citizenship of the United States and citizenship of a state is clearly recognized and established. . . . It is quite clear, then, that there is a citizenship of the United States, and a citizenship of a state, which are distinct from each other, and which depend upon different characteristics or circumstances in the individual.
We think this distinction and its explicit recognition in this Amendment of great weight in this argument, because the next paragraph of this same section, which is the one mainly relied on by the plaintiffs in error, speaks only of privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, and does not speak of those of citizens of the several states. The argument, however, in favor of the plaintiffs, rests wholly on the assumption that the citizenship is the same and the privileges and immunities guaranteed by the clause are the same.”


To put it more clearly, it was interpreted to mean two citizenships, one to USA and one to individual states. The second sentence forbidding states from making "any law which shall abridge," only applied to federal rights alone. The "privileges and immunities" clause in the Constitution only protected rights guaranteed by the United States, not by individual states.

Basically, the Court held that this only applies to the rights of national citizenship, rights explicitly guaranteed in the Constitution.

As recently as 1999, in Saenz v. Roe, Justice Stevens opined that it applies to rights that are rights that are "firmly embedded in our jurisprudence", meaning rights that have long been established, which excludes the right to drive without a license.



As long as there is a due process of law to require drivers licenses, and as long as the laws apply equally to everyone, driver's licenses withstand this challenge. The fact that a state legislature has approved the law requiring a drivers license satisfies the due process requirement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2010, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
3,788 posts, read 4,009,251 times
Reputation: 2347
We all live in a PIG state! Revenue makers with guns...........it's what they are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top