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Old 03-10-2010, 08:37 PM
 
133 posts, read 239,032 times
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There have been people driving up on sidewalks and killing people for 40 years that i know of. "The car" went out of control was allways the story.Normal really nice people would be parking a car and,......voila "the car" went out of control.Investigations would find no evidence to prove the car guilty.Since there was no proven intent to drive up on a sidewalk or through a parking lot and mow down and kill or injure random unknown people,...there was no crime.It was just an accident that went unsolved.

I however allways knew.Am i are a jean yus? No, since you askeded.

The answer is people who drive with 2 feet,....without a clutch. They drive with a foot resting on each pedal.It's easy to spot them at night.They are driving along at a steady speed and the brake lights keep coming on.When in a situation calling for heavy braking a certain percentage will apply pressure to both brake and gas.More prevalent when the brain overloads with having to look backwards,as in a parking situation.A clumsy,uncoordinated,elderly or mentally stressed person who uses two feet is a bomb waiting for a spark.NOTE* (hot and overheated brake pads,drums and discs lose effectiveness drastically)(add in the worn down pads,drums and discs)



Now we have cars that have no mechanical connections.You have essentially remote controls(like the tv,cable,etc.)going to a computer.Computers were originally expensive.Now they are made cheap enough to run cars.Not through a wire from a mouse,but wireless multiple mice.The cheaper the computer and mice the more profit for the automaker.So the 2 foot driver keeps telling the puter,....go,stop,go,stop,go stop until that $3.17 chip heats up and fails.Add in the competing cell phone,gps,satellite radio,tv,radio,cb radio transmission and pretty soon you might have a problem.

So the problem is not floor mats or a 17c shim.Its the puter,mice and air all around us full of all the waves and remotes(i forgot the car alarms). The cheapest imaginablly built computers,circuit boards,chips and add in 2 feet drivers and voila.It could just be everything but the 2 foot dummies.My money says the 2 footers play a part.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 9,011,854 times
Reputation: 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinefarm View Post
Now we have cars that have no mechanical connections.You have essentially remote controls(like the tv,cable,etc.)going to a computer.Computers were originally expensive.Now they are made cheap enough to run cars.Not through a wire from a mouse,but wireless multiple mice.The cheaper the computer and mice the more profit for the automaker.So the 2 foot driver keeps telling the puter,....go,stop,go,stop,go stop until that $3.17 chip heats up and fails.Add in the competing cell phone,gps,satellite radio,tv,radio,cb radio transmission and pretty soon you might have a problem.

So the problem is not floor mats or a 17c shim.Its the puter,mice and air all around us full of all the waves and remotes(i forgot the car alarms). The cheapest imaginablly built computers,circuit boards,chips and add in 2 feet drivers and voila.It could just be everything but the 2 foot dummies.My money says the 2 footers play a part.
While I loath 2 foot drivers I can assure you that is not how you "kill a chip". The amount of power required to process "stop" and "go" input signals is not great enough to generate a dangerous amount of heat. Chips (mid level) are capable of processing billions of commands every second... a hundred or so signals every minute created by the driver is nothing.
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:18 AM
 
Location: The cupboard under the sink
3,876 posts, read 7,236,264 times
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While the chips themselves are capable of these actions, remember the chip has to drive some sort of mechanical part to make the action happen.
These will NOT be capable of billions of commands every second.

I can see where the OP is coming from.
It would be interesting to see a study on it, to see if it's a factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
While I loath 2 foot drivers I can assure you that is not how you "kill a chip". The amount of power required to process "stop" and "go" input signals is not great enough to generate a dangerous amount of heat. Chips (mid level) are capable of processing billions of commands every second... a hundred or so signals every minute created by the driver is nothing.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:36 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,786,405 times
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you are right my friend.. The left foot should never touch the brake pedal. Most (older) people cannot grasp this and if you notice I don't recall anyone under 55 who has has had a 'runaway' Toyota.. Has anyone seen a younger person with a runaway Toyota? For as long as I can remember(40 years) I have seen news stories from time to time wit a 70 something person who has driven thru a store front somewhere and they always swear they had their foot on the brake and the car wildly accelerated by itself. It was always silently dismissed and 'just another older person who confused the brake and the gas' story.

Does anyone think the Toyota fiasco is along the same lines?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pinefarm View Post
There have been people driving up on sidewalks and killing people for 40 years that i know of. "The car" went out of control was allways the story.Normal really nice people would be parking a car and,......voila "the car" went out of control.Investigations would find no evidence to prove the car guilty.Since there was no proven intent to drive up on a sidewalk or through a parking lot and mow down and kill or injure random unknown people,...there was no crime.It was just an accident that went unsolved.

I however allways knew.Am i are a jean yus? No, since you askeded.

The answer is people who drive with 2 feet,....without a clutch. They drive with a foot resting on each pedal.It's easy to spot them at night.They are driving along at a steady speed and the brake lights keep coming on.When in a situation calling for heavy braking a certain percentage will apply pressure to both brake and gas.More prevalent when the brain overloads with having to look backwards,as in a parking situation.A clumsy,uncoordinated,elderly or mentally stressed person who uses two feet is a bomb waiting for a spark.NOTE* (hot and overheated brake pads,drums and discs lose effectiveness drastically)(add in the worn down pads,drums and discs)



Now we have cars that have no mechanical connections.You have essentially remote controls(like the tv,cable,etc.)going to a computer.Computers were originally expensive.Now they are made cheap enough to run cars.Not through a wire from a mouse,but wireless multiple mice.The cheaper the computer and mice the more profit for the automaker.So the 2 foot driver keeps telling the puter,....go,stop,go,stop,go stop until that $3.17 chip heats up and fails.Add in the competing cell phone,gps,satellite radio,tv,radio,cb radio transmission and pretty soon you might have a problem.

So the problem is not floor mats or a 17c shim.Its the puter,mice and air all around us full of all the waves and remotes(i forgot the car alarms). The cheapest imaginablly built computers,circuit boards,chips and add in 2 feet drivers and voila.It could just be everything but the 2 foot dummies.My money says the 2 footers play a part.
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:30 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 9,011,854 times
Reputation: 2919
Quote:
While the chips themselves are capable of these actions, remember the chip has to drive some sort of mechanical part to make the action happen.
These will NOT be capable of billions of commands every second.
If that were true then the problem would have been figured out already. It is much easier to inspect throttle and brake actuators than it is trying to figure out where a short may occur on a chip.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:25 AM
 
Location: The cupboard under the sink
3,876 posts, read 7,236,264 times
Reputation: 7434
I know what you mean, it is a bit far fetched, but it's a different angle.

Remember tho, if this theory is correct, the actuators would show as functioning, but perhaps the system could generate some sort of "lag". Like if your computer slows down, and you're pushing keys, but nothing happens, then it suddenly catches up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
If that were true then the problem would have been figured out already. It is much easier to inspect throttle and brake actuators than it is trying to figure out where a short may occur on a chip.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 9,011,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman View Post
I know what you mean, it is a bit far fetched, but it's a different angle.

Remember tho, if this theory is correct, the actuators would show as functioning, but perhaps the system could generate some sort of "lag". Like if your computer slows down, and you're pushing keys, but nothing happens, then it suddenly catches up.
"Lag" or delay would be due to chip problems... When you press on the pedals a resistor is swept and the computer picks up the voltage changes, they could work off capacitance sensing as well but I do not know for sure. Either way there should be no signal delay from the pedal to the computer, the delay would occur when the computer processes the signal and distributes the commands to appropriate components.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,786,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
"Lag" or delay would be due to chip problems... When you press on the pedals a resistor is swept and the computer picks up the voltage changes, they could work off capacitance sensing as well but I do not know for sure. Either way there should be no signal delay from the pedal to the computer, the delay would occur when the computer processes the signal and distributes the commands to appropriate components.
The delay is dialed in by the manufacture. My Mustang was custom tuned by a shop on a computer and they took out all the delay and now the throttle has no delay under any circumstances. Its brutally responsive. Way more so they any cable or rad actuated throttle I have ever drove. Its hard to drive at first...
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 9,011,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
The delay is dialed in by the manufacture. My Mustang was custom tuned by a shop on a computer and they took out all the delay and now the throttle has no delay under any circumstances. Its brutally responsive. Way more so they any cable or rad actuated throttle I have ever drove. Its hard to drive at first...
I don't see why manufacturers would implement a delay in throttle and braking circuits. There has never been delay in analog (mechanical) systems so why would they start doing it with DBW?
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:09 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,786,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
I don't see why manufacturers would implement a delay in throttle and braking circuits. There has never been delay in analog (mechanical) systems so why would they start doing it with DBW?
Driveability. In fact different cars have different amount of lag dialed in. My 08 Chevy 2500 hd work truck has the most that I have ever felt in a car. If I am rolling off the gas to walking speed and hit the gas, there must be a full second before anything happens. Irritating but ya learn to compensate My Mustang GT is very hard to drive with the manual trans with no lag. In fact most would not like it.. It revs very fast.. Makes it hard to drive.. thats why they dial in a slight lag to make it easier for average drivers. All the aftermarket tuners remove all the lag because most people who have this done aren't your average drivers.

oh and there is a very slight delay in a cable throttle You don't notice it because every car has it..Thats the reason lag is dialed in on DBW cars.. to simulate cable driven throttles.
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