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Old 03-24-2010, 09:50 AM
 
2,996 posts, read 4,766,930 times
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Im considering a straight trade for this 2003 Mustang Mach 1 , 24,000 miles , 6 speed, buildup using best parts supportive of 1500 hp ; His car dynoed at 900 rwhp/830 rwtq , runs on 93 octane gas....for my 2006 LS2 Corvette Coupe , 17,000 miles, 6 speed, stock , with the most basic package (I paid $39000 when brand new) . My car is worth $29,000 today and a basic 2003 Mustang Mach 1 is worth $20,000 but hes got $70,000 invested in the car. Im considering this trade because id like to get into going to the 1/8 mile Strip often. Plus i already have another Corvette.

His build was performed by a highly recognized Performance Shop in N.J. who specializes in Twin Turbos and Tuning and it appears no expense was spared on the build. Here is a short clip of his car :
YouTube - johns 900rwp twin turbo mach1

Please give me your thoughts, what i should be careful of, etc... Thanks much for your help.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:06 AM
 
3,743 posts, read 10,957,262 times
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Honestly, I'd just sell your Vette and buy a new Camaro. What do you use the car for? 900 hp is hopelessly useless on the streets. and heavily modded cars are an ongoing process of TLC and money.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:20 AM
 
2,996 posts, read 4,766,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
Honestly, I'd just sell your Vette and buy a new Camaro. What do you use the car for? 900 hp is hopelessly useless on the streets. and heavily modded cars are an ongoing process of TLC and money.
Like i said, i want to break into drag racing at the strip very close to me. So the car would be used perhaps 40% of the time at the strip as a hobbie. Ive thought about the ongoing process of TLC,etc... plus im not sure theres anyone nearby who is competent on twin turbo racing setups either. Here is the build on his car which sounds impressive ; it appears he hasnt spared any expense :

[CENTER][CENTER]MODS LIST[/CENTER][/CENTER]
TURBO SYSTEM
Custom built turbo system by tt performance
Twin 62mm precision billet turbos
Giant 4 row intercooler
Twin tial waste gates that vent to atmosphere
Tial 50mm bov (between turbos spooling, open wastegates, & bov car sounds insane)
All intercooler piping is powder coated yellow and heat wrapped in some spots
Also all piping is bolted together so it cant blow off under high boost and all turbo t bolt clamps used
ENGINE
Cobra iron block
Arp main and head studs
Cobra crank
Manley billet I beam rods
Custom ross turbo racing pistons
Billet oil and cranck gears
(a really good short block for cobras cost around $4000 mine has the best parts and was built by john stimpson who does top fuel cars so it cost about $7500)
Bbk throttle body
IGNITION SYSTEM
Ngk race plugs
Weapon x coils
COOLING SYSTEM
Meizier electric water pump
Upgraded hoses
Giant custom fit racing aluminum radiator
Twin nascar mini permacool racing fans
Water wetter fluid added
(car never over heats runs super cooler between 160-180 and on dyno multiple runs only went up to 210) also electric water pump hard wired to battery along with fuel pump
DRIVETRANE
D&D viper spec t56 6 speed
McCloud duel disk clutch
Dynatech custom aluminum driveshaft
Steeda tri axe shifter
Steeda clutch quadrant adjuster
FUEL SYSTEM
Custom ttp built to support 1500 forced induction hp
Glenns sumped nascar tank with stainless sump upgrade
All earls braided Teflon stainless lines
Upgraded russel black nascar hardware and hose ends
Aeromotive eliminator fuel pump
Russel and earls fuel filters
Aeromotive boost reference regulator
Aeromotive fuel rails
83 lbs. injectors
WATER/METHONAL INJECTION KIT
Snow performance stage 3
Upgraded pump
Upgraded duel nozzle system
Upgraded safe injection box
Upgraded washer tank to hold the boost juice
(safe injection hard wired to battery. If anything happens run out of meth, filter clogs, pumps blows up, exc safe injection pops waste gates open so you cant blow up the engine)
SUSPENSION
Steeda lower control arms
Steeda upper control arms
Tokico shocks
Custom steeda shocks
Aje tubular front k member
Kenny brown full length welded sub frame connectors
Ta rear girdle brace
Perfect 50 /50 weight ratio achieved by ttp. After aligning to road race specs
( as I said before the suspension set up works period dead hooks in 2nd gear)
WHEELS AND TIRES
Front stock wheels with kumho 245/45/17 z rated tires
Rear mach 1 style 9.5 inch rims 275/40/17 mickey Thompson drag radials
INTERIOR
Corbeau micro suede forza seats
Msd yellow mini shift light
Auto meter phantom piller mounted boost, fuel pressure, and temp gauge
Rear seat delete
Greddy profec 2 custom mounted boost controller
(also have a 2nd manuel boost controller under the hood)
Battery relocated to trunk with mini odyssey battery
EXHAUST
Custom made by ttp
Duel 3 inch turbo back that exits in front of rear tires cobra r style
3.5 inch tips
No cats no mufflers sounds as beastly as the car really is
EXTERIOR
Zinc yellow
Blacked out tail and head lights
Blacked out emblems
20% tinted windows
Blacked out wheels
Yellow powder coated center brake rotors
Black powder coated calipers


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Old 03-24-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Southwest Missouri
1,921 posts, read 5,561,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Ive thought about the ongoing process of TLC,etc... plus im not sure theres anyone nearby who is competent on twin turbo racing setups either.
This would be my biggest concern. I'd check around and see if you can find a reputable shop in your area with experience wrenching similar setups. Since there is a drag strip near you, spend a few weekends talking with other racers. Bet you find someone who can work on this car.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,831,482 times
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seen that Mach before and its a well built and serious car. If you want to get into drag racing I would start off with something a little more slower John car is a low 9/high 8 second car.,... Maybe a little too much for someone who wants to start off in drag racing....
TT built the car??
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:06 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,617,189 times
Reputation: 14280
That's a pretty damn serious build for someone looking for a weekend toy to take to the local 1/8 mile track. I also need to mention that a car like that really isn't setup for 1/8 mile runs. If he is willing to share slips from the drag strip, you will probably notice that the car isn't really building major speed until the top half of the quarter mile. A setup like this just isn't built for 1/8 mile racing. You'll be shutting down before the fun starts.

I've seen the car race before and as frank said, that is a low 9 / high 8 second car in the quarter mile. I'm not going to judge your abilities through the keyboard, but if you have never drag raced before, that is a bad place to start.

As for the car, I wouldn't worry too much about the build, just the ongoing maintenance. Even with everything done with the best parts by the best people, that kind of power + sticky tires + launching the hell out of it = broken parts. If you don't have the ability yourself to do major work, or have a local GOOD shop that is familiar with late model Mustang's and turbo's, I would avoid it. On average guys with these setups that are racing competitively (or just often) are generally rebuilding transmissions and diffs/axles at least once a season and that isn't accounting for any damage to the engine itself that may occur.

As for the trade values on the cars, your Vette is worth a LOT more than the Mach 1. I don't know where you got $20k from, but the NADA and black book values on a 2003 Mach 1 put the car's retail value at no more than $12k - $14k max. With the extensive modifications, the car is pretty much worthless from a market sense, but certainly has value that can't be calculated to an ethusiast. On the other hand, your Vette is worth anywhere from $29k to $33k at retail.

If it was me, for your purposes, I wouldn't make the swap. You can sell the Vette outright, pocket a good amount of money and go pick up a used Mach 1 (or any other drag racing oriented car) and pocket a lot of cash that can go towards modifying the car the way you want it and have it optimized for the 1/8 mile. Or, for that matter, you could just race the Vette.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Loudoun Cty, Virginia
738 posts, read 2,554,852 times
Reputation: 627
I had to balk at the estimated street value of the Mach 1 being $20k also, I see them around me going to low teens when they're in excellent shape.

Sell your vette, buy a cheap drag car to learn on, use the extra money and modify in stages. Drag the car while stock, upgrade some parts, drag again and see how much your times improve. Rinse and repeat...

I think you'd have a lot more fun if you took part in the whole process of building the car yourself, and drag racing it after each mod to see what difference they made, and then you'd be much more accustomed to handling the power once your car got really quick. Jumping straight into a 9 sec car is quite a change from driving street cars.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:53 PM
 
2,996 posts, read 4,766,930 times
Reputation: 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
That's a pretty damn serious build for someone looking for a weekend toy to take to the local 1/8 mile track. I also need to mention that a car like that really isn't setup for 1/8 mile runs. If he is willing to share slips from the drag strip, you will probably notice that the car isn't really building major speed until the top half of the quarter mile. A setup like this just isn't built for 1/8 mile racing. You'll be shutting down before the fun starts.

I've seen the car race before and as frank said, that is a low 9 / high 8 second car in the quarter mile. I'm not going to judge your abilities through the keyboard, but if you have never drag raced before, that is a bad place to start.

As for the car, I wouldn't worry too much about the build, just the ongoing maintenance. Even with everything done with the best parts by the best people, that kind of power + sticky tires + launching the hell out of it = broken parts. If you don't have the ability yourself to do major work, or have a local GOOD shop that is familiar with late model Mustang's and turbo's, I would avoid it. On average guys with these setups that are racing competitively (or just often) are generally rebuilding transmissions and diffs/axles at least once a season and that isn't accounting for any damage to the engine itself that may occur.

As for the trade values on the cars, your Vette is worth a LOT more than the Mach 1. I don't know where you got $20k from, but the NADA and black book values on a 2003 Mach 1 put the car's retail value at no more than $12k - $14k max. With the extensive modifications, the car is pretty much worthless from a market sense, but certainly has value that can't be calculated to an ethusiast. On the other hand, your Vette is worth anywhere from $29k to $33k at retail.

If it was me, for your purposes, I wouldn't make the swap. You can sell the Vette outright, pocket a good amount of money and go pick up a used Mach 1 (or any other drag racing oriented car) and pocket a lot of cash that can go towards modifying the car the way you want it and have it optimized for the 1/8 mile. Or, for that matter, you could just race the Vette.
You and the other fella have offered up alot of wisdom. I cant help agreeing with you both. I think im going to keep my vette and perhaps have ECS install their Paxton 600 S.C. on it which will bring it to about 525 rwhp. Ill have all the power i need for street and strip , it will be very streetable, fuel economy wont be killed , and ill still have a luxury sports car. Thanks for letting me bounce this thing off you guys ... its helped me .
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,838,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
a basic 2003 Mustang Mach 1 is worth $20,000 .

You're about $10,000 off there.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:00 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,617,189 times
Reputation: 14280
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
You and the other fella have offered up alot of wisdom. I cant help agreeing with you both. I think im going to keep my vette and perhaps have ECS install their Paxton 600 S.C. on it which will bring it to about 525 rwhp. Ill have all the power i need for street and strip , it will be very streetable, fuel economy wont be killed , and ill still have a luxury sports car. Thanks for letting me bounce this thing off you guys ... its helped me .
I have a good friend with an ECS setup on his 2004 Le Mans Edition Vette. Very streetable with a ton of power on tap when needed. It's a great package and you won't be disappointed.

I also have another friend (I'm in a car/racing club) that is running the STS rear mount turbo on his Vette. Again, it is a very streetable package and makes great power, so just something else to think about if you like turbo's.

If it was my car, I would personally go with a good heads/cam/exhaust package and enjoy the feeling of driving a high powered N/A car. However, the ECS setup is a cheaper path to more power without losing the regular driving dynamics of the car. If you keep the Vette, you have a lot of options.
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