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Old 05-09-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,996 posts, read 13,359,432 times
Reputation: 4006

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Judging from the tone he set, I highly doubt he cares about any recommendations we would have given him. He was more interested in saying that there was no preventable flaws in Chrysler products and that the Challenger weight is was it is because it has to be. I'm not doubting that he's an engineer but he wasn't here for a friendly back and forth chat. He was the only one that was right apparently and the problem is just that we simpletons are associating Chrysler's amazing engine design with a swarm of bees in the engine.
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
10,732 posts, read 22,438,363 times
Reputation: 5142
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
Judging from the tone he set, I highly doubt he cares about any recommendations we would have given him. He was more interested in saying that there was no preventable flaws in Chrysler products and that the Challenger weight is was it is because it has to be. I'm not doubting that he's an engineer but he wasn't here for a friendly back and forth chat. He was the only one that was right apparently and the problem is just that we simpletons are associating Chrysler's amazing engine design with a swarm of bees in the engine.
haha almost a perfect example of why they got into this mess in the first place is that they think the consumers know nothing and the designers are not willing to address the problems the people who own them and mechanics who work on them are bringing up.
well I was hoping bob could atleast listen to the people who drive them and the people who work on them and hear what they have to say.

Last edited by GTOlover; 05-09-2010 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: added to...
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,055,308 times
Reputation: 1377
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOlover View Post
hmm we have alot of knowledgeable mechanics here but was the first designer know if we could get the mechanics that wrench on these cars he designs to talk to him about things they like and dislike about the products maybe they could design a sweet car.

Because the mechanic's know which parts fail and seem to be cheap and deal with the customers on the front lines and with the rest of the automotive enthusiast's on this site who like and own an array of cars and are potential customers we could tell bob the styling and features we like and the mechanics and shop owners could tell him what issues they are seeing on popping up regular basis on chrysler cars.

I know one thing if dodge made the challenger lighter and had performance to match the new mustang and sold it for the same price I would consider one but they would have to use the new 6.4 hemi and pump it to the 475HP-500HP range and drop 300-400 LBS and re-weak the suspension.

If they could sell a lighter,leaner challenger with 500HP in stock form for 35K they would have a hit in the pony car wars.
the next step would to find out why and what people like about their hyundais small cars and suvs they are making solid, reliable small cars and people are flocking to them and the price is right.

one thing they need to keep in their line up is the ram heavy duty and keep a cummins under the hood it's the main reason people love dodge ram trucks is for the cummins diesel

feel free to add to the list what you would like to see at dodge in the next few years and what they can do to make it better now...
I am a GM/ford guy so my list is kinda biased on what features and things I like in my cars and trucks


I agree with you completely ! Great post. I drive a SRT Challenger once in awhile that belongs to a buddy, and it is too heavy. Runs great, I feel it has good power, but that car needs a big weight reduction.Get it down to the competitions weight, and you are correct, it would OWN the Pony car/new style musclecar war hands down.
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,055,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
He said at the expected price point, they can't. Which is funny because Ford has been doing it for years.
If Chrysler can't cost wise, then something is way wrong with the way they are sourcing parts. Which could be, considering the way visteon took them to the cleaners on the I.P. and door panels for the Ram. As a former visteon employee, I know it happened!
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,055,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
Bob: "waaaa I'm a big baby. I'm crying because I work for a half assed company."

You can split hairs all you want but other manufacturers are able to provide a superior drive train at similar price points. All you're doing is trying to redistribute the blame and failing miserably.

And you work for half assed who?
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,055,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Sheaves View Post
First, let me state that I have only worked in the past for Chrysler within Vehicle Engineering (Jeep/Truck Engineering and TCC- the Technical Computing Center- directly or as a contractor/consultant), so marketing is a bit out of my area of knowledge. I have opinions, just like anyone else, but I will not foist them on anyone.

Challenger: As it stands today, the LX platform was a Daimler ordered rework of the Chrysler designed LX. The governing board did not like the original, so it was reworked to utilize the suspension geometry of the, then current, E class Mercedes (however, do not make the major mistake of thinking the car is BASED on the E...it is not and shares no SUSPENSION COMPONENTS OR PLATFORM DIMENSIONS). Chrysler developed the car to meet the corporate requirements. Another requirement was 5 star crash ratings for all variants of the platform, or better. This little fact, coupled with the size difference between Mustang and Camaro account for the weight difference between the original Challenger.

I cannot comment on future plans for confidentiality agreement reasons. My OPINION is that the car will not get lighter due to the mechanical requirements of regulations, consumer required equipment, and simple physics (if you have a car of "x" size, with "y" amount of equipment, and it must meet "z" crash results, all for under "a" amount of money....it is going to weigh what itt ddoes today).

Contrary to popular belief, no manufacturer adds weight simply because it's there. Every ounce of weight is there for a reason (you may not agree with the reasoning, but that has no effect on the weight). The Challenger was not intended to "compete" with Mustang or Camaro at all regardless of how many people compare the 3.

As far as a plant in the US for the LX variants, not likely, due to cost. With the existing design parameters, the Canadien plant is it.

Ok, let's do the cost thing. Cost of lost sales due to your car being made outside the US vs. cost and making the sale because it is made in the USA. I am a if it's not made here, no matter how much i like it, I will never buy it on large purchases such as vehicles. Many things now I do not have a choice, and frankly, if I did, I would buy what is made here first, second and last. Bean counting in this area has mislead Chrysler and other companies. But I do have to ask, why is the competition so much lighter if Chrysler isn't able to do it? I have some ideas, but won't list them here. And yes, I do klnow a thing or 2 about auto production, designing, making the molds, and bringing to production products in the automotive aftermarket. ( the canted valve heads for the old Pontiac V8, a plus 6 figure investment). Now one other sore spot amoung Chrysler buyers; if you won't build it here, why should we buy it? btw, I do have a 71 Cuda, was a 383 car, now has a 440 and a 68 Cuda tube chassis drag car. So my comments are not just as a person without Chrysler products. Oh, my current driver truck? Made in Fenton, Mo. Ram 1500 4x4
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:14 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,996 posts, read 13,359,432 times
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I'm guessing the primary reason is that the only affordable rwd platform they have is the one underpinning their large cars, which is being utilized in the Challenger. They would need to make some costly changes to reduce weight. This would have also drastically increased development time and they were already late to the party.
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
10,732 posts, read 22,438,363 times
Reputation: 5142
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
I'm guessing the primary reason is that the only affordable rwd platform they have is the one underpinning their large cars, which is being utilized in the Challenger. They would need to make some costly changes to reduce weight. This would have also drastically increased development time and they were already late to the party.
yeah I agree while ford and GM are rolling out new models dodge seems to have sat idle my guess is they are re-tooling their factories which takes time but it seems dodge is a niche car maker while ford and GM do volume sales if you compare to how many mustangs their are on the road to challengers you will see ford out sells them 5-1 pretty much and most of their line up has been out for a long time while ford and GM have updated or redesigned new cars and platforms. IE the 2011 ford taurus

the first step they took that made sense was to kill off all those ugly little suv jeep knock offs based off the dodge caliber that were not deserving of the jeep name in the first place they were not selling and all the money spent making them was stupid IMO.

Also ford and GM are investing heavily in eco boost and direct injection where they can make tons of power and get great fuel economy which is great because even the new V6 mustang and camaro are getting over 300HP and getting near 30MPG HWY now that is awsome.

If dodge could even add direct injection with their curent MDS to the 5.7 Hemi in the ram and 300C and charger line up it would give it a huge boost in horsepower and fuel economy and they already have the motors built it's just a matter of adding the direct injection component's and computer program. The one shining star right now is the pentastar V6 coming out in 2011 jeeps.

Last edited by GTOlover; 05-09-2010 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,996 posts, read 13,359,432 times
Reputation: 4006
The new GM/Ford engines are impressive. I hope the same could be said of the Chrysler offering.
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 23,064,523 times
Reputation: 7960
Chrysler had the right idea in making the Caliber a four door hatch, but they messed up a good idea by trying to make it look like a truck/suv. Also, compared to it's competition, it's huge, heavy, and underpowered for the vehicle weight. The Sebring/Avenger would have debuted stronger if the base engine was balanced (no buzzing), made the six speed auto the standard transmission for all versions, transmission shift controls for fuel efficiency in base and upscale model but an optional sport mode for the upscale model to change the shift points. They could have used more upscale materials for the Sebring.
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