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Old 06-08-2010, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,755 posts, read 39,152,929 times
Reputation: 28891

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Sunsprit, that's why I said each state varies. What you said and what I said may or may not apply to any particular state. But I've done it four times, and have some recollection, although imperfect, of what happened. I do know that in Wisconsin, if you have an out of state DL, and you're still there after 30 days, just go get a new 30-day temp.

I've bought mostly 10+ year old cars. I suppose if you show up with a '09 Escalade and say you bought it for $500, they'll question it, after all $3,000 in sales tax is worth fighting for. But if you shave a couple of thousand off the KBB to save $200, nobody will say anything. If a guy wants to title his $5,000 car over to his daughter to drive to college, and the state says that'll be $400 please, they deserve to be defrauded. (Many states have stopped allowing in-family transfers tax free.)

If a person is inclined to commit tax fraud, I don't mind explaining what I know about the system. He can then do whatever he wants. If the state has already collected the full sales tax on the car when new, it is not unreasonable to argue that they are not entitled to keep on taxing the same merchandise over and over again.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:35 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 22,481,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
That's just the dealer being obstinate.

Texas is a very easy state to register a car in, and all dealerships have a big book that walks them through each state's requirements.
Absent a sales tax license for a given state, a dealership cannot collect sales taxes for that state. Sales tax collection is a function performed on the part of the dealership for the state only in the state they are licensed to do business in and where they hold a sales tax license.

The dealership that's selling a car in NC, knowing that the purchaser isn't a resident, but filing paperwork in their name to an address there ... is doing something not legal. They may be motivated to do so because they have quotas or territorial dealership agency/manufacturer issues which require them to sell a vehicle into a given geographic area or face adverse consequences with their manufacturer. But this isn't a sales tax issue.

I haven't seen that "big book" at most dealerships I've dealt with around the USA.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:48 PM
 
Location: California
9,791 posts, read 24,396,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Absent a sales tax license for a given state, a dealership cannot collect sales taxes for that state. Sales tax collection is a function performed on the part of the dealership for the state only in the state they are licensed to do business in and where they hold a sales tax license.

The dealership that's selling a car in NC, knowing that the purchaser isn't a resident, but filing paperwork in their name to an address there ... is doing something not legal. They may be motivated to do so because they have quotas or territorial dealership agency/manufacturer issues which require them to sell a vehicle into a given geographic area or face adverse consequences with their manufacturer. But this isn't a sales tax issue.

I haven't seen that "big book" at most dealerships I've dealt with around the USA.
Nothing illegal going on...all taxes and fees are being paid. May not sit well internally between dealerships, but that is about the extent of it.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:56 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 22,481,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Sunsprit, that's why I said each state varies. What you said and what I said may or may not apply to any particular state. But I've done it four times, and have some recollection, although imperfect, of what happened. I do know that in Wisconsin, if you have an out of state DL, and you're still there after 30 days, just go get a new 30-day temp.

OK, that's Wisconsin. And I do know that in many Western states, with an "out of state" purchase and that state's temporary tag issued at the time of purchase, you've got that tag's time to title/register your vehicle in your home state. Since the purchase deal didn't take place in your home state, they have no cause and do not issue a temporary tag.

I've bought mostly 10+ year old cars. I suppose if you show up with a '09 Escalade and say you bought it for $500, they'll question it, after all $3,000 in sales tax is worth fighting for. But if you shave a couple of thousand off the KBB to save $200, nobody will say anything. If a guy wants to title his $5,000 car over to his daughter to drive to college, and the state says that'll be $400 please, they deserve to be defrauded. (Many states have stopped allowing in-family transfers tax free.)

I, too, deal in older cars ... mostly 20+ years old. But taking your example of a $50,000 car that's one year old, in many locales, sales taxes are a lot more than 6%. Try 7-8-9% ...

If a person is inclined to commit tax fraud, I don't mind explaining what I know about the system. He can then do whatever he wants. If the state has already collected the full sales tax on the car when new, it is not unreasonable to argue that they are not entitled to keep on taxing the same merchandise over and over again.
I see your rationale to dodge the sales taxes, but the law is pretty clear that every retail transfer of a motor vehicle is a sales taxable event. You clearly advised the OP to misreport their purchase price for the clear intent to not pay appropriate sales tax ... which is entirely different than relating that you'd done so in your transactions and now asserting that they could let their conscience be their guide.

It is certainly not unreasonable to pursue changing the tax code in your state. But that's a different matter than setting out to defraud the system as it now exists.

I don't know the states that you deal in, but I do know that the sales tax people in the states I deal in are "on to" this type of tax fraud and aggressively seek to get every penny (plus penalties & interest) from those who try to defraud them. That's why they have you sign an additional statement at the County Clerk's office, which specifies that you are reporting a car transaction at a given price under penalty of perjury ... so that if they find out that you've underreported your purchase, they have criminal penalties to go after as well as the fees and fines. They've been known to follow up with sellers, or to check on funds/bank accounts, etc ... to track down the "real" amount of funds that were paid for a car. Back in the days of $1,000-2,000 10 year old cars, perhaps it wasn't worth their time to do so. But in todays car economy of vehicles now in the teens to multiples of that, you're looking at thousands of dollars of tax fraud potential. That does get the authorities attention, and they've got staff to pursue this area.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:58 PM
 
43,177 posts, read 47,049,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyGirl1 View Post
Could very well be. But in thinking...we are buying out of our "region". They may not want to make it obvious/ call attention to the sale by registering in another state. I know, for the moment, they have our address as in N.C.
But you state you know they have your address as in NC. Sounds kind of strange really;and that you are not informing them.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:04 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 22,481,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyGirl1 View Post
Nothing illegal going on...all taxes and fees are being paid. May not sit well internally between dealerships, but that is about the extent of it.
I suggest you check on the laws of the respective states about residency and titling motor vehicles.

The story you've related specifies that a vehicle is being titled to a residence address that is not yours ... to the extent that you don't even know where it's at. Not legal in any state that I know of, even if all the fees are being paid.

In many states where I've done business, it's illegal to even title/license a vehicle in another county in the state away from your residence. That's because the counties are seeking their revenue due them.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Location: California
9,791 posts, read 24,396,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
I suggest you check on the laws of the respective states about residency and titling motor vehicles.

The story you've related specifies that a vehicle is being titled to a residence address that is not yours ... to the extent that you don't even know where it's at. Not legal in any state that I know of, even if all the fees are being paid.

In many states where I've done business, it's illegal to even title/license a vehicle in another county in the state away from your residence. That's because the counties are seeking their revenue due them.
And I suggest, you go back and read the posts. I never said it was being titled to a out of state address! I'm buying in one state....titling and registering it in my home state at my home address. Taxes and registration get pd. It is no big deal! Please don't put words in my mouth.
Correct, I don't know where the dealership is....because it is being bought at one dealership...where I bought the last car...but being delivered to a closer sister dealership for my convenience. The car is just being made this past week, so I have not gone as far as seeking out the exact address of the dealership.

In fact, if you read my first post: You'll see where I said the dealership did not want to deal with paying taxes and registering the car in Tx.

"Not the dealer we dealt with in North Carolina where we bought the R8.
We're buying the V10 Spyder from the same dealer...and have already spoken to him about registering in Tx and taxes. They want nothing to do with it. Maybe it is the Dealers preference?
I'll know more in a couple of weeks."

Last edited by ShelbyGirl1; 06-08-2010 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:28 PM
 
Location: California
9,791 posts, read 24,396,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
But you state you know they have your address as in NC. Sounds kind of strange really;and that you are not informing them.
Nothing strange at all....The former dealership has our address as in Tx. The dealership the car is being delivered too...but is not getting the credit for the sale...just has our state as N.C. on the initial paperwork. All that will change when we fill out the final paperwork for the car.

Last edited by ShelbyGirl1; 06-08-2010 at 09:51 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 8,070,881 times
Reputation: 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyGirl1 View Post
LOL...that's just it...We don't!

How...interesting.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: California
9,791 posts, read 24,396,696 times
Reputation: 21516
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
How...interesting.
LOL..Explanation above!
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