anyone ever go get their pilot license? (mechanic, training)

[GTOlover]

looking for a new hobby and I always wanted to learn how to fly and checked out a few flight schools and they say that best thing to do is they will take you up and let you try flying and try it out to see but being winter that is out.

on another note I priced out 2 and 4 used seat cessna's and pipers and I would be buying a late 80's early 90's models but still kinda new to it

anyways would be neat to hear from people that are into it

[sunsprit]

There are a fair number of pilots on the C-D forum ... I'm one of them.

I'd advise you to take a couple of introductory flights and if it appeals to you, then get your medical and ground school completed. Set aside the funds to pursue your license, and follow through with the flight school rental aircraft before making any decision about what you want to buy.

There's so many trade-offs between various makes and models of aircraft that you need more experience and judgement to make a good purchase for your needs. That's part of the process, is to determine what your flying priorities are going to be. Long cross countrys? Back Country short and soft strips? Local flights? Aerobatics? What's your pleasure ... ?

Keep in mind that insurance requirements will be a big factor in what you can fly for the first hours of your flying ... you'll not be qualified for high performance complex aircraft for awhile. Unless you can justify the cost of an instructor flying with you for many hours before you can get signed off, you'll do better to stay with smaller/simpler aircraft before you progress up the performance/capability ladder.

FWIW, I own an old 182, which meets my needs. It may/may not be what you'll want to fly in due course after you've flown one ....
There's faster aircraft, smaller aircraft, bigger aircraft ... it's not unlike trying to choose between various sports cars and family cars and vans to reach the optimum set of compromises for your budget and needs.

Keep us posted on your adventures leading to your ticket ....

[Retroit]

I'm a pilot and was also a flight instructor for a few years. In addition to sunsprit's excellent advice, I would recommend:

• Buy Microsoft's Flight Simulator and master it. The students that I had that did this excelled. It won't simulate the feel of the real plane of course, but will teach you a lot of the basics and the terminology.
• Learn as much as you can before actually starting to fly. Take a groundschool course beforehand if possible and get the written exam out of the way. That way when you get in the plane, you'll have the basic knowledge down and can focus on flying technique.
• Make sure you have the money set aside beforehand to finish the course. It's not good to have to discontinue training for long periods of time due to lack of funds. You'll spend a lot of time reviewing instead of progressing.
• I don't know what current costs are or what the requirements in Canada are. I think fuel is over $6/gallon. When I was teaching, Canadians were coming to the States because it was cheaper. The minimum requirement is 40 hours of flight time, but the average student requires 72 hours.
• While you are taking introductory flights and checking out flight schools, keep your eyes and ears open for who you might like as a flight instructor. Talk to students at the school and ask them about their instructor. Who you have as an instructor is the biggest variable in flight training. Good instructor = pleasurable experience. Bad instructor = frustration, misguidance, waste of money & time. If you aren't connecting with your instructor, don't delay switching. I gained many students who were about to quit their lessons because they didn't like their instructor.
• When picking a flight school, don't just go with the cheapest. Consider the number and quality of planes/instructors available. It is expensive to run a quality flight school. It is cheap to run a dangerous flight school. Which one do you want to pay for?
• I would avoid lump sum payments for flight lessons (paying everything up front) if at all possible. I know people that got scammed out of thousands of dollars when their flight school went out of business. Pay-as-you-go if possible.
• I never owned my own plane and only a few of my students ever did. The purchase price of a used plane is pretty cheap. The maintenance, insurance, hangar, etc. are expensive. I would only recommend buying if you are going to fly a lot. If you plan on flying just a few days a month, renting will save you a lot of hassle.
• I know Vancouver is often cloudy and rainy, but your comment about it being winter shouldn't deter you. A lot of flight training takes place right at the airport so perfect weather is not always necessary.

[M3 Mitch]

Either of you guys want to offer a SWAG of what it costs to get to the first basic license?

Do any flight schools offer "real" simulator instruction? Seems to me it's both cheaper and safer than actually flying, at least for parts of the training. I know the major airlines use simulators, and of course the nuclear industry has for years. One advantage of a simulator is you can train on things you really don't plan to actually do with the actual equipment - stuff like a large leak in a nuclear plant, and (I guess) things like having an engine fall off for aircraft, failures of major control systems, etc.

[Retroit]

I honestly don't have a clue. About 20 years ago when I was teaching, it cost about $4000. You can figure it out by finding out what the school charges per hour for the aircraft and multiply that by 70 or so. Many of those hours (50 or so) will be with a flight instructor, so add that in. Throw in a few hundred for books, supplies, etc. Most places include the cost of fuel in the per-hour rental rates.

Most smaller schools don't have simulators, especially for your first rating (Private Pilot). They are more useful for Instrument Rating (flying by reference to instruments) training. Most of the simulators at that stage aren't really good anyway, at least not like the airlines. Honestly, Microsoft's is better than some or the older "true" simulators out there. If you are going to a bigger school ("Pilot Factory"), they'll have simulators. Even there though, most primary training is done in the plane.

[M3 Mitch]

Thanks. It's interesting (appalling) how much airplanes cost to run. I remember meeting a couple of guys who had an old B-25 Mitchell, I think they were a couple of dentists - anyway, just talking with them, and at the time I was a young professional engineer, making about $30K (1982) - anyway it was clear to me that even if I already had multi-engine and say instrument ratings, just flying the thing for an hour a month (or whatever the minimum requirement is) to stay proficient would impoverish me and an equal partner. Of course there are cheaper airplanes out there, but, just sayin'.

On and off I have thought about getting a pilot's license, but never felt like I had the money to really do things right, so have stayed with cars and motorcycles,

[Retroit]

Yeah, those old warbirds are quite expensive. Most require a team/organization of very dedicated volunteers. Parts often have to be custom made.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by M3 Mitch

Either of you guys want to offer a SWAG of what it costs to get to the first basic license?

(snip)

I had a neighbor set aside $6,500 for his private pilot training which was completed in 2010. That took care of his student materials, a good used headset, misc pilot supplies (sectionals, plotters, E-6B, kneeboard), aircraft rental time, instructor time, flight examiner fee, and ground school instruction.

That did not include his 3rd class medical exam, typically $80 around here for an uncomplicated basic exam in good health.

The instruction and rental 172 aircraft was by an old-timer CFII, so it was very personalized instruction and ground pre- & post- flying discussions. At a local airstrip where there is no tower and very little traffic to interfere with one's in-the-pattern work or practice area just a couple of miles away. This maximizes one's time in the plane to beneficial use ... you're not sitting in a line-up down a taxiway waiting to get cleared for the runway in use, you're not flying a lot of minutes to commute to a practice area, and if you're doing touch and goes ... you're taxiing right out to the runway and in the pattern, usually the only plane there unless one of the based aircraft is active for a few minutes. Not uncommon to be able to do at 10 touch and goes per hour in a tight pattern, not cruising for a mile past the runway for spacing and the aircraft ahead to be clear of the runway. We're fortunate that a towered airport is 28 miles away, so the student pilot can get experience with the radio communicatons, nav aids, and see what it's like to land on wide (and very long) runways.

I'd be jealous of these circumstances. The airport I learned to fly at had a parallel runway for training purposes, but it wasn't unusual for the tower to have 4-5-6 planes in the pattern during good VFR training weather (mild crosswinds at the most). It could easily take 15 minutes to taxi out and get onto the runway, and it took 15 minutes of flight time to get to the approved practice area for airwork. With a variety of aircraft in the pattern, we were typically slowed down to the lowest common airspeed behind slow climbing and flying 150's and 152's .... That was the "old days", although I rented wet152's for $22.50/hour.

I've heard horror stories of recent students at that airport with a two hour block time reservation not having enough time to get their plane, pre-flight, taxi out, and get onto a runway with any meaningful time left before the aircraft was due back at the ramp, tied down and refueled. It's certainly not uncommon in prime daytime training hours to need a half-hour or more in taxi time just to get to take-off. The place has just become way too busy with training activity, many based pilots/aircraft, and the many larger business class aircraft that get a priority in/out treatment from the tower.

The most recent cost/hour I've seen for 172's at a county airport here with a decent flight instruction staff is around $95/hour. Given that typical 72 hours to ticket ... there's $7,000.00 I'd figure another $1,000 for flight instructor time, and several hundred in pilot supplies. That puts a Private Pilot ticket somewhere in the vicinity of $9,000 ... if you've got a good training site, good instructor(s), and aircraft maintained in good condition so that you're getting what you pay for and not a bunch of postponements/cancellations, unexpected downtime, or issues with an aircraft that interfere with your training/learning. I'd seek out training at a non-towered airport with a minimal or modest amount of traffic. In easterm WA, that may be reasonably easy to find, and you'll still have access to a towered airport for that aspect of your training.

As mentioned above, I wouldn't start flight training without having set aside the money before starting out. It's a serious detriment to your progress to have to stop until more money comes in .... IMO, I'd schedule at least 3 lessons per week ... to have enough time between lessons to think about what you've learned and to study more about the phase you're at ... then get back into the plane.

[agsovereasy]

I am a private pilot who sort of went on a full-cycle journey into flying and gave it up. Maybe my experience will be helpful to you in deciding what route to take.

Got my license at age 47 and immediately bought an old Cherokee 180. Hauled the family (wife, two kids and some luggage) well and we flew all over the Gulf Coast for couple of years. Flew lots of rental planes to decide what to move up to and bought a Beech Bonanza 35...the famous V-tail model. Really got into it at that point, and spent quite a bit of money on the plane, particularly avionics. Got my instrument rating at about 350 hours. I still consider this to be one of the crowning achievements of my life...great challenge. Passing the IFR final was maybe the proudest day of my life.

Joined AirLifeLine, an organization flying indigent medical patients for their treatments. Flew many missions carrying burn victims (kids) to Galveston Shriners Hospital. Also flew with my wife on vacations, had a great time.

At around 500 hours I quit. Burn-out. Been-there, done-that syndrome. "33Mike" needed a new engine and a prop overhaul. Insurance rates kept going up. And the thing that finally got me was the Texas heat. My last flight as a med. mission in 100 degree heat in July.

Sold the plane and took up golf. Was I glad about my experience? You bet! Would I recommend it to others? Sure, but only if you have plenty of discretionary dough. Will I ever go back? Can't pass the physical now, but honestly probably would not go anyway. I golf and restore my 69 Olds 442 on much less money.

Go for it!

[ToucheGA]

Nowadays, it costs anywhere from $5000 to $7000 (or more) to get your private pilot's license. Shop around at airports in neighboring counties. If you are willing to drive 30 minutes to an out-of town airport for lessons, you may save thousands of dollars.

I would generally discourage anyone from purchasing an aircraft before they learn how to fly. Only a very small percentage of licensed pilots own their own plane. Rent aircraft from a flight school as you learn to fly. Many schools can let you fly a few different types of planes, to give you and idea of which ones you like the best. A prior poster had a very good point. Planes can be inexpensive; some 1970's and 1980's models are not much more than a new mid-level car. I have seen Cessna 150s for well under $20,000. However, the insurance, maintenance, hanger fees, fuel, etc. add up very, very quickly. Buying a plane is much more expeinve than buying an additional car for teh same price. Unless you plan to fly 10-20 hours a month, minimum, owning an airplane is usually a bad idea. The worst thing you can do to a plane is to leave it on the ground for too long. Planes prefer to be in the air, and if they are not flown regularly, they can develop mechanical problems.

A good way to own aircraft is to enter into a partial ownership arrangement, where you own an aircraft with one or more other pilots. The maintenance costs, etc. are split between the owners, and the plane is flown regrually. Flying clubs are another good option. A monthly membership fee can get you access to a variety of aircraft. You can research these options via. Google.

Hope this helps!