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I'm 6'6" and never had an issue in a 150 or any other general aviation plane I've flown. My favorite training plane was the GRUMMAN/AMERICAN GENERAL AA1A, flew a tiger and a cheetha too.
+1 on the Grumman/AG line.
I have been considering an airplane for commuting, and I keep coming back to them. Roomy, fast (for the HP) simple, rugged and generally less expensive than their equivalent Pipers or Cessnas.
I have been considering an airplane for commuting, and I keep coming back to them. Roomy, fast (for the HP) simple, rugged and generally less expensive than their equivalent Pipers or Cessnas.
I'd take a Grumman over a P or C any day. Wonderful planes and fun to fly. Just don't try to get in or out of one when its raining.
Looking for some input on what it costs to fly privately.... What are your fixed costs versus variable. Let's say you are flying a cheap old C152 or C150, or some other ~$20k plane, perhaps a '46-47 Aeronca Chief or Champ, bought outright.
How much is insurance (roughly)?
Annual (no DIY)?
How much should you put aside per hour for engine replacement?
How much should you put aside per hour for other (non engine) maintenance and is this separate from expected annual cost (obviously annual costs $$$ whether there is something wrong or not).
What are the hidden fees you don't think of--aircraft registration, etc. ? Bi annual flight review?
Depends on buying a hangar queen or one that is well-kept. That being said, when I upgraded out of my Cessna turbo 310R to a Piper Cheyenne PA-31T what I did was locate all those that had fresh annuals and low time engines with completed hot sections. Prop overhauls are a plus too. Having a mechanic then peruse the maintenance logs to see if he can find anything that might indicate a future problem or if its been pranged. Ditto the avionics. Then I whittled down the final few until I found the one. Then the haggling begins. When you have chosen the aircraft that meets your criteria, you may have already spent several thousand dollars for the research. You do not want to get caught with a mechanics lien.
Just some of my experiences.
But when you walk out onto the ramp and there she sits waiting for you to climb in and light the fires and you say to your self, its all mine...................................nothing beats that feeling.
I have been considering an airplane for commuting, and I keep coming back to them. Roomy, fast (for the HP) simple, rugged and generally less expensive than their equivalent Pipers or Cessnas.
I took my commercial and instrument training in a Tiger. Nice plane. Speedy and handles nicely. My instructor happened to be my 2nd cousin, an older gent. (Like me now!) Anyway, he started a daily scheduled flight back in the late 70s, between Rapid City, SD and Billings, MT. The plane? A Tiger. In his Air Force retirement he had a flight school in Rapid City. All of his planes were Grummans, and I flew then all at one point or another -- AA-1B (2-seat trainer), AA-5A (Cheetah) and AA-5B (Tiger).
One oddity with all of them was castering front landing gear. It made for tight turns on the ramp much like a tail dragger, but I can't say I was a fan of it.
I took my commercial and instrument training in a Tiger. Nice plane. Speedy and handles nicely.
I loved our flying club's Tiger. But I will say that one of the very few moments in the air when I thought I was going to die was when piloting that Tiger. I was in the flare for a landing when a gust of wind picked up the right wing. Suddenly the windscreen was filled with a runway light and the grass around it. I went full right aileron and it had zero effect. The plane was near minimum speed (MCA) and the ailerons in the Tiger are not very effective at that speed. It took me a precious second or two to remember the rudder. I got it down safely, but that was a real eye opener!
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One oddity with all of them was castering front landing gear. It made for tight turns on the ramp much like a tail dragger, but I can't say I was a fan of it.
It takes some getting used to, but I loved it. I could get in to some amazingly tight spaces, usually to the surprise of any on-lookers. When I was part of a group that did a demo flight in a Columbia (now the Cessna Corvalis) I was the only pilot that had success with the nose gear, thanks to my time spent in the Tiger.
The way I see it, I'd rather be sinking some saved or invested money into an aircraft, as opposed to a house or something that I'd lose interest/responsibility in.
Especially when you find yourself living miles from the nearest anything, a 172 or something with speed mentioned in the previous posts, would sure beat dealing with rural highways and coming across the unsuspecting "bear".
Typical mission in my mind is 200nm.
I think it should be an easy two hours in a 172. But my thought is to start smaller/cheaper and get some hours in.
Big difference between ab-ignitio training & skills and the precision of using them at an IFR level of proficiency.
IMO, best to "learn to fly" first. Then move up to the more powerful, heavier aircraft with the stability and panel appropriate to the next level skills.
I am not suggesting he buys a Bonanza because it is IFR equipped.
If the OP thinks he will get an instrument rating then just find a plane that is IFR equipped. A simple six pack with a panel mounted IFR GPS. What is the used 172 price difference between a vfr and ifr one? Heck you can even find ifr 152s.
Getting the instrument rating is such a good idea. Look at how many GA crashes are listed as VFR flight into IFR conditions.
Typical mission in my mind is 200nm.
I think it should be an easy two hours in a 172. But my thought is to start smaller/cheaper and get some hours in.
I figure when you live in a mountainous or hilly state the roads make a lot of twists and turns. Or you have to drive around a mountain to get where you are going.
That is when an airplane makes sense. It really can cut travel time. Even when you factor in preflight planing, preflight, and post flight.
If you live in Kansas a slow plane starts to make less sense.
I figure when you live in a mountainous or hilly state the roads make a lot of twists and turns. Or you have to drive around a mountain to get where you are going.
As one who was based at 2V2 or APA for decades and flew the Rocky Mountain Region for recreation and business travel ... probably over 100 round trips APA-ASP ... there's a huge value to having GA utility due to bad road conditions.
I've had many trips to Aspen or Eagle County where my flight time was less than a hour and the roads below were a snarled mess with the typical I-70 weekend traffic. Summertime weekend flights were easy, no dealing with the I-70 Eisenhower traffic and the traffic jams East-West bound in the Idaho Springs area.
That is when an airplane makes sense. It really can cut travel time. Even when you factor in preflight planing, preflight, and post flight.
One of the primary joys of being the aircraft owner and maintenance tech with a hangared plane is knowing the airplane condition from flight to flight; ie, nobody else has flown the plane and it's not been out on the ramp with the risk of damage there.
My preflight time is but a matter of minutes, planning a routine flight in the region is a matter of checking the weather/PIREPS/NOTAMS, Winds Aloft, and using common sense to look outside and observe. With the 'net resources and subscriptions to Flight Planning software accessible from home before I even leave for the airstrip, it's a very easy process compared to years ago of having to contact a FSS briefer. Post flight is again a matter of minutes on a C182; I probably spend more time self fueling than any other aspect. Typically, any minor item needing repair from use between annual inspections is trivial ... a tire replacement, a light bulb, etc. I've had to replace brake pads between annuals, but that's because I was able to monitor their condition from the time of annual inspection until they were truly worn out.
I'm a big believer in Mike Busch's attitude about "on condition" maintenance of an airplane. With the exception of one failed fuel cell in a mid-annual cycle, I've never had any significant repairs needed between annual inspections. But I am pro-active and aggressive about keeping stuff observed, lubed, adjusted and correct for my safety and satisfaction. And I am the type of pilot that will uncowl my plane and really check things out thoroughly before departing on a remote back country trip for a camping week.
If you live in Kansas a slow plane starts to make less sense.
Not necessarily. Even a 100 mph cruiser yields a lot of utility when you're looking at a 200 nm mission profile. Consider where main players in the GA industry are based ... such as Wichita. They developed there in response to a demand for their products in the region.
PS: one of my T-hangar building mates bought his first airplane ... a '58 Bonanza ... when he became affluent enough to seek out his Dad's plane he remembered flying in as a toddler. Still in the region, it was for sale when he was ready to take up his PPL training. He did all of his training in that complex airplane. 6 years and a couple hundred hours in the logbook, he's still ... IMO, of course ... a not very good stick and rudder pilot. Legally signed off and now working on his IFR rating, but hardly able to get the utility out of his airplane that it should be well capable of delivering.
I've "hangar flown" with him after some of his major trips and he still hasn't figured out how to really fly his plane ... typically, he takes 25% more time to reach our common West coast or Colorado mountain destinations than I do in my much slower 182. And he's still not proficient enough with short/soft landings to be comfortable with heading into places like Johnson Creek in Idaho, which is a remarkably easy back-country airstrip (and a popular Bonanza camping destination).
We've got ready access to grass runways around here where he could practice and learn, but grass runways still terrify him. Short runways, even more intimidating. Again, IMO, he missed out on some very basic skillsets of power/airspeed management by skipping having to endure the agony of eeking out the last bit of performance in a 150/152 for his initial training. That Bonanza is quite a performer and a wonderful cross country mile-eater, especially when flown two seats and modest baggage ... but I don't believe he's even figured out yet how to trim it without chasing the trim settings in cruise.
Last edited by sunsprit; 06-16-2015 at 01:50 PM..
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Anyway, he started a daily scheduled flight back in the late 70s, between Rapid City, SD and Billings, MT. The plane? A Tiger. In his Air Force retirement he had a flight school in Rapid City. All of his planes were Grummans, and I flew then all at one point or another -- AA-1B (2-seat trainer), AA-5A (Cheetah) and AA-5B (Tiger).
