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So I want to learn to fly, but I don't know much about it (aka different kinds of flying). What kinds of jobs or work can you do with flying? I've seen there are different types of jobs/flying and wondering what the best one is. I am 25 and live in a city where they can teach you to fly.
Everybody and his brother wants a job as a pilot. Because the supply is so high, the pay is extremely small. I was taking my lessons from a 25 yo who was also a corporate pilot - he made more giving lessons than he did with the corporate job.
Maybe you can get a job elsewhere in the world where the demand for pilots is higher?
As to taking lessons, you can get in cheaper if you can take your ground school at a community college. But I think that is a rare offering.
I didn't know any pilots before I started flying when I was 33. I had spent my whole life with a dream to fly, but I didn't know any body. I had a major life event and had a chance look at my life again and decided that I would learn to fly with no reservations about money or the training, book work, or FAA written or practical tests. I just went down to the airport and said that I wanted to learn how to fly.
That was 29 years ago and I have been flying ever since then. I have a small aircraft and keep it full of fuel so I can go when ever the feeling strikes.
If it helps to motivate any one that wants to learn how to fly. Learning to fly has been in the top 3 best decisions I have ever made. I have done things and been places that only general aviation can do.
There's many career paths to be had in the aviation industry as a pilot. You could be flying freight, tours, charters, scheduled airline passenger service, flying pipeline patrol, corporate aircraft, ag agspray, photo/aerial mapping, fish finding, fire services, ferrying, etc.
But virtually every job opening has many more qualified pilots than jobs due to the allure of being paid to fly for many people.
Be aware that the entry level jobs don't pay well and you'll put in a lot of time to build your hours toward qualifying for jobs where you can really make a living in this business after you've borne the expenses of instruction, testing, and qualifications for the next level of flight responsibilities. Due to the workplace system, you may spend a whole day tied up with the job but actually only log a few revenue flight hours.
Just for a very crude example, a hangar mate of mine owns an agspray business ... seasonal work here; he estimates that from the first training in the spray plane (after you already have your hiperformance taildragger sign-off), that you'll be flying 2-3 seasons before you'll start making any money in the biz with revenue flights. Your first year will cost you typically $30,000 out of pocket, your second year you might make most of your training time expenses back, so you might come close to breaking even but he suggests that you figure on still spending $12-15,000 out of pocket for the season. Your first opportunity to do revenue flying where you can make some money is your third year. Of course, it's all dependent upon your skills and advancement and the seasonal demand and weather conditions s to how many hours you'll actually get to log each year. You'll be up before dawn each day at the airstrip, getting ready to fly if the conditions allow it and they have a job ticket to be flown that day. There will be many days when the temperature and winds will preclude your revenue flight that day. But maybe conditions will improve later that day; what do you do to fill in the time to be available to fly?
Keep in mind that a catastrophic medical conditon can be a career ender. If you can't keep your medical, you're out of a job for circumstances which may well be beyond your control. Know in advance that your health is of paramount importance to flying for hire and your career. You will be repeatedly heading in to visit your AME and getting flight physicals; a 1st class physical is every 6 months and a stress echo may be part of the requirements (at your own expense, of course). A 2nd class medical isn't as frequent and rigorous, but you still need to have decent vision, hearing, cardio system, etc. You might want to visit an AME for a medical exam (which would be required for your learner's permit) and get their opinion on your physical condition before spending a lot of money getting your private ticket to start with.
Getting my own ASEL private ticket, high performance & taildragger endorsements, along with an Instrument rating was a wonderful experience. I've had some multi-engine time, but I knew that the aircraft I could afford to insure/operate/own were beyond my requirements so I didn't pursue more training in these. I've put my ticket to good use for many years in personal transportation and pleasure flights in my own aircraft.
Keep in mind that it's not inexpensive to start out and the aircraft you may choose to own/fly could be a signficant expense. Much depends upon what your mission profile is and how you choose to fulfill it. There's flying to be had for low dollars if suitable aircraft fit your needs. Similarly, if you need/want to travel longer distances with more passengers at higher speeds, you'll need to pay the price of admission and the higher maintenance, operating, and insurance costs.
Finally, understand that proficiency and currency are two big items that you must maintain to exercise your flight privileges. Here's where this can come in at great expense: I have a corporate flying pilot buddy who is type certified in various turbine and jet aircraft. From time to time, he gets contract offers to fly certain aircraft for awhile. But he may not necessarily be current in the aircraft. So, at his personal expense, he has to rent a similar aircraft (and/or use the corporate aircraft and hire an instructor) to fly as needed to get signed off again. For some of the jobs he's been offered, it cost him as much to get current again as the pay he might receive. The justification was that he might get more flight hours offered to him and would be able to make some money on his costs. Sometimes it doesn't happen and he's back to flying a different aircraft for months while his currency runs out in the other plane ... his rationale (as a scuba diver and golfer) was that he got to fly someplace with an extended layover where he got to dive and/or golf while waiting for the next flight segment.
So I want to learn to fly, but I don't know much about it (aka different kinds of flying). What kinds of jobs or work can you do with flying? I've seen there are different types of jobs/flying and wondering what the best one is. I am 25 and live in a city where they can teach you to fly.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Jordan
You need a commercial certificate to get paid to fly. That requires 250 hours. All up you're probably looking at around $50k for that.
You also need a medical (1st or 2nd, they are basically the same). Make sure you can pass that before dropping any money on flying. It's not hard, but no diabetes, good vision (with glasses is OK), no major medical histories like fainting, etc.
Most folks instruct to build time, as getting a job at bare minimums is pretty hard. A CFI/I MEI cert will cost around $15k just guessing.
To get to the airlines you need 1,500 hours, most people "time build" to get to that point. The commuters aren't bad, you'll cut your teeth and make little money at first but when you upgrade you'll be touching 6 figures at the better companies.
From there you'll hopefully be able to move on to the majors. That is where the money, schedules, and benefits (like 16% 401k contributions) happen. It will most likely take close to a decade from when you start before you get to the majors.
That is a long time to be waiting your turn.
There are other opportunities but worthwhile jobs in the corporate area are even harder to nail down. As much crap as the commuters get, just wait till you work for a slumbag 91 or 135 outfit.
This isn't something you think out over drinks one night and decide to do it. You need to realize you're going to be out a ton of money and time if things don't go your way.
If you already haven't, talk to someone at UND. They have a great aviation department, but it's not cheap. Most aviation career-type jobs will require a 4 year degree. If you don't get a position somewhere after graduation, then you can usually work at the university as an instructor. Pay is lousy, but at that point in your career you need hours. As you get more experience, more doors will open.
Another path is enlisting in one of the branches of the armed services. Their pilot candidates come from ROTC programs or their respective academies. My nephew just graduated from the Air Force Academy and qualified for pilot training. He will start training in the fall. If all goes well, he'll be flying jets of some variety in a couple of years.
Good Luck.
one might also mention that flying for the "major" scheduled passenger airlines is very much a union/seniority job situation. The seniority governs your ability to bid flight lines and there are significant differences in the total hours of commitment and the paid flying hours to be had. You'll also discover that certain lay-over destinations will be far more entertaining to pass time in than others, and you'll typically have lay-overs. There's a big difference in your workday when you've got 3-4-5 (or more) flying segments spaced by short layovers and then a short overnight stay in a relatively isolated location without much to do before heading out to fly again vs the desirable flights of longer duration where you start your flying day with a major flight and a lay-over in a nice town wtih lots to do in your off-duty hours.
Hire date is an all-important factor in what positions will be available to you and for how long during a career.
As well, this has been a rather volatile industry, between mergers/acquisitions or companies going out of business. It's not an unusual story over the last decades for a captain with seniority to bid good flight lines on top paying aircraft to find themselves on the street, having lost seniority/pension/benefits or years with a company towards vesting a retirement ... and maybe finding work at another airline where they don't have seniority. Happened to a friend flying 747's as a Captain on overseas routes, got hired at another airline and all he could get into was 737's but not as a Captain. Flying under Captains with many years fewer experience (and aspiring to move up to the bigger jets) than he had and a much lower paying job.
Don't forget that your career in the majors flying passengers is time limited/capped at age 65 due to FAA regs. If you are lucky enough to have a long career with one airline, then you may get vested for your retirement benefits. But the glory days of pilots working for one airline through to retirement is nowhere near as common as it was years ago.
I'd also observe that ... according to my major airline and corporate pilot flying friends ... that there is a lot of politics and "who you know" situations that present in getting hired as you progess in a pro flying career. IOW, just because you have the hours and flight experience in the right type of aircraft doesn't necessarily mean that when the jobs become available that you will be hired. I've know several very competent pilots who rose through the night cargo hauling jobs building hours with years of flying gas singles, then twins, then moving on to turbines and building lots of hours, who finally got hired by a regional and built hours in turbine twins. Then their career stalled, they never got hired moving up from there. Topped out around $40K/year flying. They've since gone back full time to their other careers that supported them while they were earning only $12-20K per year flying for years.
On flight instruction: many pilots building time to a pro flying career will choose this path. But I've found out the hard way ... through personal experience as well as referring friends to get started in aviation ... that not everybody who is a competent pilot is also a good instructor. And there's a huge gap in the quality of instruction that many students receive; this is a oft-discussed topic in the GA industry as to why folk drop out having started to learn to fly. Indeed, my first instructor was a really good one, but mid-point to my private checkride he got hired by a regional and moved away. I was then turned over to other instructors at the flight school, and I had a difficult time with all but one of them. The good one was solidly booked up and difficult to get time with, and she, too, hired out just a couple hours before signing me off for my checkride. Again, I had to fly with several other instructors who wanted to reinvent the wheel and my flying skills to their approval. I was yanked around for at least 12 hours by these folks who couldn't get their instructional act together. For grins, I flew with another friend, a 747 pilot who also flew 180's & 185's and was a CFII and a check pilot for a major airline. I flew his 180 and he was incredulous that I hadn't been signed off for a checkride, but he wasn't on the staff of the flight school so he couldn't do it. I got him to give a call to the flight school and was given a chance to fly with their chief flight instructor, who gave me the sign-off. My FAA examiner observed that I was one of the most qualified students he'd ever flown with and I nailed all of the required flying pretty smoothly, navigation, flight planning, the whole works ... to the point he was asking why I hadn't done a checkride sooner. I could only point to the screwing around I got from the flight school and the numerous departing instructors who wanted me to demonstrate what I'd learned for many more hours than where I'd believed I had more than adequate demonstrated proficiency. As an aside, I'd recently spent over 10 years flying with my 180/185 buddies and had a lot of unlogged flight hours cross country, mountain flying, and into the wilderness/backcountry of Idaho. So I had a lot of experience flying with other CFI's in an informal, recreational environment, and they'd put me through the flight maneuvers for years ... turns around a point, keeping a heading, flight planning (wt & bal), turns to a new course & timed turns to a heading, navigation, approaches to land (that's the only thing they wouldn't let me do was actually touch down and fully land the plane ... but I've come within inches of doing so and had a number of times landing on grass strips where the main gear wheels were starting to turn).
Essentially, we could start a whole new thread about the realities of ab initio flight instruction. There's a lot of things to watch out for as you progress, and knowing how to choose a flight school/instructor and knowing when you are being treated well or not is a big part of how to spend your flying dollars wisely.
I'm not sure that the bigger flight schools are the way to go ... although some have stellar reputations for those wanting to fly professionally. We've got a local old-timer CFII who does on-demand charter flying (in a 182 or 210), and new students and BFR's/ICC's for the folk like me. He's got to be the smoothest instructor I've ever been around, been teaching for over 50 years. I've referred folk to him and he's always gotten rave reviews about his teaching methods. He's never been interested in any other type of flying or instruction, never wanted to fly big iron. Flying from our small country airstrip, a student's time is maximized compared to flying out of the towered airports in the area with the flightschools.
Have you at least taken a small aircraft flight yet? I have zero desire to fly the 'big iron' as they call it. Being a bush pilot has its allure though.
Once you've mastered the pattern, the damn plane practically lands itself. Stay ahead of it. Feel it. Don't be scared.
It's a massive commitment. But if you have the spirit don't let anything stop you.
How many hours of lesson-taking does one usually need to learn everything necessary and pass tests? (Say you take lessons X times per week, Y hours each time, how many weeks/months would it take?) Also the cost of the whole thing from not knowing anything to obtaining license (I know it varies, but just to get an idea)?
Also, beside medical, is there swimming requirement? I know commercial airline crew members must pass swimming, but I guess no one cares about a private pilot not being able save himself in the water.
How many hours of lesson-taking does one usually need to learn everything necessary and pass tests? (Say you take lessons X times per week, Y hours each time, how many weeks/months would it take?) Also the cost of the whole thing from not knowing anything to obtaining license (I know it varies, but just to get an idea)?
Also, beside medical, is there swimming requirement? I know commercial airline crew members must pass swimming, but I guess no one cares about a private pilot not being able save himself in the water.
40 hours, 20 dual and 20 solo, is minimum for most situations. Some programs used to have a 36 hour minimum, but not sure if that is still the case. Most people take 50-60 hours to complete training. The more often you can fly, the fewer hours it will take. I logged exactly 40 hours in 3 weeks to get my private. But I worked at a small airport, with unlimited access to plane, and my instructor was a commuter pilot with only one student, me.
Costs typically run around 6-8k for a private pilot. There are schools that will save you a bit if you prepay. Some have programs that will take you from 0 time to an Airline Transport Pilot rating. Along the way you will have to train and test for Commercial, Instrument, Flight Instructor(CFI), Multi-engine ratings, and a few others that only require a check ride with an appropriate instructor> complex, high performance, tail wheel, towing, etc. Costs will exceed 100k and figure 3-4 years.
I know there is swimming/ditching training and tests for military pilots, but I have never heard of a swimming requirement in the civilian world. Maybe if you fly off shore helicoptors?
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. If all goes well, he'll be flying jets of some variety in a couple of years.
