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Old 08-27-2014, 05:52 PM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,378,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
2) Range - these aircraft allow minimal stops which can cause diplomatic issues. Also it allows them to take a large staff with them. This all leads to what I think is a big reason
I didn't think about the diplomatic issues. I know that the President of Mexico with his Boeing 757 usually stops in Gander Newfoundland on his way to Europe to refuel. With his new 787 he won't have to stop. But I didn't think that some regimes might not have to a conveniently neutral place to stop. Especially if there is a warrant for their arrest in unstable times.

The "large staff" should be proportional to the size and power of the country and the possibility of conducting the government from the air in the event of extreme emergency.

Algeria is a member of United Nations, International Monetary Fund, and World Bank. Algeria is an active member of the Global Counterterrorism Forum (GCTF). Algeria also is a Partner for Cooperation with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, an observer to the Organization of American States, and an observer to the World Trade Organization.
-- That's pretty standard stuff. They have no treaty to go to war. IMHO it is ridiculous that such a small poor nation needs a staff of hundreds when he is on a short trip. I think it is more about his own protection.

=============================
John Kerry (US Secretary of State) has a 757, and he lists all of his refueling stops. They actually add up to a lot after a while. His "go to" refuel stop is Shannon, Ireland

Afghanistan Marrara (Refuel), 8/10/14
Belgium Brussels, (Refueling) 1/6/14
Guam Anderson AFB, (Refuel) 12/18/13
Jordan Aqaba, (Technical Stop) 12/13/13
Austria Vienna, (Refueling) 8/2/13
Kyrgyzstan Bishkek, (Refueling) 4/11/13
Shannon, (Refueling) 6/21&27/14
Shannon, (Refueling) 6/9/14
Shannon, (Refueling) 4/29-30/14
Shannon, (Refueling) 3/29/14
Shannon, (Refueling) 3/7/14
Shannon, (Refueling) 1/15/14
Shannon (Refueling) 12/11-12/13
Shannon (Refueling) 12/6/13
Shannon (Refueling) 11/11/13
Shannon (Refueling) 11/2-3/13
Shannon (Refueling) 10/24/13
Shannon (Refueling) 7/30-31/13
Shannon (Refueling) 7/15, 7/19/13
Shannon, (Refueling) 5/20-21/13
Shannon, (Refueling) 5/9/13
Shannon, (Refueling) 5/6/13
Shannon, (Refueling) 3/19/13
Shannon, (Refueling and meeting with Foreign Minister) 3/6/13

It's not immediately clear what an overnight stop for refueling is for (example: 4/29-30/14). I think the Secretary probably gets some specialized help in Europe that joins him on the jet. The trip following that stop was (Apr. 29-May 5): Ethiopia, South Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Angola, Cape Verde (17,239 miles). It is only 3600 miles from Cape Verde back to Washington which is easily flown without refueling.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 08-27-2014 at 06:20 PM..
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:10 PM
 
5,107 posts, read 6,037,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I didn't think about the diplomatic issues. I know that the President of Mexico with his Boeing 757 usually stops in Gander Newfoundland on his way to Europe to refuel. With his new 787 he won't have to stop. But I didn't think that some regimes might not have to a conveniently neutral place to stop. Especially if there is a warrant for their arrest in unstable times.

The "large staff" should be proportional to the size and power of the country and the possibility of conducting the government from the air in the event of extreme emergency.

Algeria is a member of United Nations, International Monetary Fund, and World Bank. Algeria is an active member of the Global Counterterrorism Forum (GCTF). Algeria also is a Partner for Cooperation with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, an observer to the Organization of American States, and an observer to the World Trade Organization.
-- That's pretty standard stuff. They have no treaty to go to war. IMHO it is ridiculous that such a small poor nation needs a staff of hundreds when he is on a short trip. I think it is more about his own protection.

=============================
John Kerry (US Secretary of State) has a 757, and he lists all of his refueling stops. They actually add up to a lot after a while. His "go to" refuel stop is Shannon, Ireland
I don't think these aircraft are configured to carry 'hundreds' By the time they are configured with the amenities desired for the leader (office, sleeping quarters, kitchen, communications, etc) and the facilities required for his family and immediate support staff a fair amount of the space is probably taken up. Then there may be space for a special vehicle or two. And even if there is a staff of 50 or 60 lower level people I doubt they cram them into typical 'economy seating'
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
I don't think these aircraft are configured to carry 'hundreds'
I got the impression that the staff was pretty big. Avion Presidente Benito Juarez, a Boeing 757-225 has room for 66 passengers and 15 crew members and includes a private office, bedroom and bathroom for exclusive use of the president of Mexico. This plane normally seats 200 (two-class) or 239 (one-class).It just seemed logical that they could add in a lot more people in a Boeing 787. Some articles have reported as many as 250 people.

The Secretary of State's 757 just broke down in the last two weeks. Everyone had to come back from Hawaii on United.

The Secretary's Aircraft (Boeing VC-32A (757-2G4)) was described in the article as "aging". It's first flight was 05. Nov 1998 which makes it about 8 years newer than Air Force One VC-25. A sixteen year old airframe is not exactly new, but it's not exactly "aging".
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Old 08-28-2014, 05:07 AM
 
5,107 posts, read 6,037,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I got the impression that the staff was pretty big. Avion Presidente Benito Juarez, a Boeing 757-225 has room for 66 passengers and 15 crew members and includes a private office, bedroom and bathroom for exclusive use of the president of Mexico. This plane normally seats 200 (two-class) or 239 (one-class).It just seemed logical that they could add in a lot more people in a Boeing 787. Some articles have reported as many as 250 people.

The Secretary of State's 757 just broke down in the last two weeks. Everyone had to come back from Hawaii on United.

The Secretary's Aircraft (Boeing VC-32A (757-2G4)) was described in the article as "aging". It's first flight was 05. Nov 1998 which makes it about 8 years newer than Air Force One VC-25. A sixteen year old airframe is not exactly new, but it's not exactly "aging".
I would think that that is a more typical VIP configuration for a 757 sized aircraft. Not sure how they will use the extra capacity of a dreamliner.

I suspect that the issues with the VC-32 are more in the age of the installed systems and not the airframe. There probably hasn't been much time for maintenance recently :-)
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:50 AM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,378,898 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
I would think that that is a more typical VIP configuration for a 757 sized aircraft. Not sure how they will use the extra capacity of a dreamliner.

I suspect that the issues with the VC-32 are more in the age of the installed systems and not the airframe. There probably hasn't been much time for maintenance recently :-)
Wikipedia says 16 flight crew (varies with mission) and 45 passengers.

The are FOUR C-32A 's delivered, but I suspect that there is one used primarily by the SecState, one by the first lady, one by the VP, etc. There are two VC-25's, but probably nobody uses them but the POTUS except in an extreme situation. If there is an issue with the VC-25 they can use the other one. But if SecState's jet has a problem the other ones are in use.

I understand that the new VC-25 replacements will be THREE jets instead of two. The contract for the replacement for the C-32 will probably not be issued for another decade. Although the 777 (3641 sq ft). is a candidate for replacement for the VC-25 most people presume that the POTUS will not give up the square footage and the choice will be the 747-8 (4786 sq ft).

Last edited by PacoMartin; 08-28-2014 at 09:59 AM..
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