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"Continental had actually come a long way from 1991 when at one time, they were within days or even hours of becoming the fourth shutdown/liquidation of that year (the others being Eastern, Midway, and Pan Am). It was mainly the aftermath and fallout from the Lorenzo years and again, limping along with a hodgepodge fleet from no less than five airlines (their own, some of Easterns, Frontier, New York Air, and PEOPLExpress-itself had a fleet that came from all over the globe) that was a noose around their neck. Even though CO went through all of the 1990's with a mixed fleet, their turnaround was nothing short of miraculous and astounding. But as with everyone else, 9/11 sent them all into a tailspin. And they never really recovered. Thus making them a prime candidate for a merger."
Their turnaround was miraculous but there were a lot of faults that were a ticking time bomb in terms of long term strategy: no enough or wrong widebodies for future growth (they ordered 762s which are now gone), the scope clause on the 50 seat ERJ which replaced 737 and M80 flying and prohibited use 70+ ERJ (OK at the time, but very bad strategy nowadays), the debt and high leases on the 737s, using 757s on TATL routes out of EWR which led to seasonal diversions instead of having the proper widebody lift.
I think it was said that legacy UA's domestic network was more profitable than CO's, but CO's international system was slightly more profitable than legacy UA's.
Then there was the little things: the very delayed and conjested Newark hub, the surly employee culture created by Gordon, the lack of network in the west, etc. All of this plays into why UA isn't doing as well as it should right now.
"Mergers are generally a sign of an industry in trouble. Delta has always had a varied fleet, that right around the time 9/11 occurred, was getting very streamlined and centered on just three or four types. Look at them now. My God....they are flying everything under the sun, much more of a mix than they had in the 90's (though they are a planespotters delight). At some point I would think that either the 73G fleet or A319 fleet will be disposed of. I don't see the logic in operating two completely disparate fleets like that."
The 73G fleet is staying (there are only 10 of them) and the 319 are getting refreshed with AVOD nose to tail. However older A320, 757, and domestic 763 will eventually be replaced.
I think the big deal with DL and the M88 VS. AA and the S80 is that DL was able to negiotate lease rates on the M88s in bankruptcy, whereas AA couldn't. DL uses the M88 on much shorter sectors than AA ever did with the M83 (remember they used to operated them on ORD-West Coast?) which could come into play as well.
"Continental had actually come a long way from 1991 when at one time, they were within days or even hours of becoming the fourth shutdown/liquidation of that year (the others being Eastern, Midway, and Pan Am). It was mainly the aftermath and fallout from the Lorenzo years and again, limping along with a hodgepodge fleet from no less than five airlines (their own, some of Easterns, Frontier, New York Air, and PEOPLExpress-itself had a fleet that came from all over the globe) that was a noose around their neck. Even though CO went through all of the 1990's with a mixed fleet, their turnaround was nothing short of miraculous and astounding. But as with everyone else, 9/11 sent them all into a tailspin. And they never really recovered. Thus making them a prime candidate for a merger."
Their turnaround was miraculous but there were a lot of faults that were a ticking time bomb in terms of long term strategy: no enough or wrong widebodies for future growth (they ordered 762s which are now gone), the scope clause on the 50 seat ERJ which replaced 737 and M80 flying and prohibited use 70+ ERJ (OK at the time, but very bad strategy nowadays), the debt and high leases on the 737s, using 757s on TATL routes out of EWR which led to seasonal diversions instead of having the proper widebody lift.
I think it was said that legacy UA's domestic network was more profitable than CO's, but CO's international system was slightly more profitable than legacy UA's.
Then there was the little things: the very delayed and conjested Newark hub, the surly employee culture created by Gordon, the lack of network in the west, etc. All of this plays into why UA isn't doing as well as it should right now.
"Mergers are generally a sign of an industry in trouble. Delta has always had a varied fleet, that right around the time 9/11 occurred, was getting very streamlined and centered on just three or four types. Look at them now. My God....they are flying everything under the sun, much more of a mix than they had in the 90's (though they are a planespotters delight). At some point I would think that either the 73G fleet or A319 fleet will be disposed of. I don't see the logic in operating two completely disparate fleets like that."
The 73G fleet is staying (there are only 10 of them) and the 319 are getting refreshed with AVOD nose to tail. However older A320, 757, and domestic 763 will eventually be replaced.
I think the big deal with DL and the M88 VS. AA and the S80 is that DL was able to negiotate lease rates on the M88s in bankruptcy, whereas AA couldn't. DL uses the M88 on much shorter sectors than AA ever did with the M83 (remember they used to operated them on ORD-West Coast?) which could come into play as well.
The CAL management that turned that company around was ex-Piedmont. When USAir bought Piedmont USAir management took over, and PIA execs, who ran a very successful but scrappy airline, went to CAL to turn it around. And turn it around they did, like you said. I wonder, had the PIA execs stayed in charge at the combined USAir, if that company would've turned out different.
The scope in the contracts prevents the lower cost regional airlines from purchasing and using these jets, and the higher price mainline airlines are trying to get the most number of passengers per pilot and crew.
That's interesting you make that observation. You're wrong however .
That was a sweetheart deal. Southwest bought AirTran to be able to get into Atlanta. AirTran had 60 some B737's which could be converted to southwest livery, and 59 B717's. SW wasn't about to convert from it's all B737 fleet , so they sold them to Delta for a deal they couldn't pass up.
The CAL management that turned that company around was ex-Piedmont. When USAir bought Piedmont USAir management took over, and PIA execs, who ran a very successful but scrappy airline, went to CAL to turn it around. And turn it around they did, like you said. I wonder, had the PIA execs stayed in charge at the combined USAir, if that company would've turned out different.
Well to be honest, seems that CO's impact on UA these days is beyond scrappy
A hell of a comeback, yes, but a complete lack of resources to remain independant by the late 00's.
The Piedmont guys are long gone, they just turned CAL around back in the 90s.
Perhaps 1, maybe 2 are still there. You can check out the UA executive bios to confirm. They maybe started at PI, went to CO, and eventually to UA.
However besides nearly 3/4 of the current executive team coming from CO, a good few came from the pre-Bethune days -- yes, that's right there is some Texas Air blood running UA these days
However, on the bright side, some of the the ex-PI/US flight attendants at the new AA have some of the highest seniority in the system.
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