Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Aviation
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-31-2015, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,633 posts, read 18,222,068 times
Reputation: 34509

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
You mean Paris to New York on Air France costs less than New York to Paris on an American line?

As to what can be done about it - the same as with any product: You have to get enough people to stop paying for it. If two-thirds of their customers disappeared, the prices would drop.
Whoever claimed that??

And, sure, getting people to stop paying for something would do the trick. But, without having truly competitive alternatives, the likelihood of this happening decreases significantly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-31-2015, 08:24 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 1,653,194 times
Reputation: 855
With the LCC's it's all about early booking. Just priced London-Milan on Ryanair.
Two weeks out E199, eight weeks out E23, with variations in between.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-31-2015, 09:17 PM
 
2,305 posts, read 2,408,778 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
US labor is more expensive than in Europe? I don't think so. Some of those European airlines have better benefits packages, too.
Wish I knew. Budapest to London was 48 euros one way not too long ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-31-2015, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,869 posts, read 16,317,950 times
Reputation: 29240
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Are taxes and the cost of labor higher in the US than in Western Europe?
No. Not to mention workers in Western Europe have benefits most Americans can only dream of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-31-2015, 11:05 PM
 
31,908 posts, read 26,970,741 times
Reputation: 24814
As noted previously lack of competition fueled by favorable policies and or inaction by the federal government is the main reason for high American airline costs.

The days of a People's Express, Tower Air or similar airline being able to break into a market with drastically lower fares is basically over. Jet Blue probably was the last we shall see in a long time.

At most primary and even secondary major airports in the USA you have a handful if not perhaps one or two American airlines holding a majority of gates/prime slots. This is especially true when it comes to the big money, international flights. If anyone even attempts to enter such markets the established big players will drop their prices below the new entry and keep them there until someone cries "uncle"; guess who that will be?

Ironically much of this anti-competitive atmosphere can be laid at the feet of the federal government's deregulation of the airline industry.

Deregulation coupled with several other factors such as bad management, poor business decisions or out right destruction ( Frank Lorenzo, Eastern Airlines and Carl Icahn, TWA) has lead to an airline industry in the USA dominated by really a handful of players. In theory it isn't a monopoly nationwide but in certain areas it certainly looks that way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2015, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,428 posts, read 18,682,072 times
Reputation: 11563
It's landing fees. Airports are locally owned and the cities charge fees based on their political motivation. Manchester, NH has the lowest landing fees in New England. Manchester wants business to come to Manchester. Bangor, Maine has very high landing fees because they see the old Dow Air Force Base as a cash cow, Many Maine people find it cheaper to drive to Manchester to fly than to use Bangor International Airport.

Then there is the Portland, Maine Jetport where Al Shabbab, Somalia's branch of ISIS, has the exclusive taxi franchise. Hey, you can't make this stuff up.

Tom McLaughlin: Somali Privilege?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2015, 09:20 AM
Bo Bo won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Tenth Edition (Apr-May 2014). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Ohio
17,107 posts, read 38,108,718 times
Reputation: 14447
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Ironically much of this anti-competitive atmosphere can be laid at the feet of the federal government's deregulation of the airline industry.
Not only that, but US airlines are mostly owned by large institutional investors these days. Most institutional investors are mutual funds.

Mutual funds and airline competition: Who really owns the skies? | The Economist

Mutual funds don't just invest in ONE airline, they invest in several at a time. The leaders of the large-shareholder mutual funds pressure each of the airlines they're invested in to maximize profits and they're doing it very effectively by maintaining a balance between keeping flights full and fares high. (Flights that are less-than-full or full of low-fare flyers aren't nearly so profitable.) They're also NOT pressuring the airlines they invest in to beat competitors - because they also own a large piece of that competitor!

Our retirement accounts nowadays are chock full of mutual funds. So the great irony in all of this is that our own retirement savings are pricing us out of one of the things most of us want to do more of in retirement - travel!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2015, 09:47 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 1,653,194 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
As noted previously lack of competition fueled by favorable policies and or inaction by the federal government is the main reason for high American airline costs.

The days of a People's Express, Tower Air or similar airline being able to break into a market with drastically lower fares is basically over. Jet Blue probably was the last we shall see in a long time.

At most primary and even secondary major airports in the USA you have a handful if not perhaps one or two American airlines holding a majority of gates/prime slots. This is especially true when it comes to the big money, international flights. If anyone even attempts to enter such markets the established big players will drop their prices below the new entry and keep them there until someone cries "uncle"; guess who that will be?

Ironically much of this anti-competitive atmosphere can be laid at the feet of the federal government's deregulation of the airline industry.

Deregulation coupled with several other factors such as bad management, poor business decisions or out right destruction ( Frank Lorenzo, Eastern Airlines and Carl Icahn, TWA) has lead to an airline industry in the USA dominated by really a handful of players. In theory it isn't a monopoly nationwide but in certain areas it certainly looks that way.
I've seen some speculation that the Justice Dept. might be rethinking it's approach to deregulation.

Day Late, Dollar Short, was the first thought that hit me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2015, 09:49 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 1,653,194 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
It's landing fees. Airports are locally owned and the cities charge fees based on their political motivation. Manchester, NH has the lowest landing fees in New England. Manchester wants business to come to Manchester. Bangor, Maine has very high landing fees because they see the old Dow Air Force Base as a cash cow, Many Maine people find it cheaper to drive to Manchester to fly than to use Bangor International Airport.

Then there is the Portland, Maine Jetport where Al Shabbab, Somalia's branch of ISIS, has the exclusive taxi franchise. Hey, you can't make this stuff up.

Tom McLaughlin: Somali Privilege?
Most European airports are locally owned and subject to political motivation too, so I don't see much difference there.

With the exception of the big four EU airports, pretty much every airport seeks to attract LCC's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2015, 09:58 AM
Bo Bo won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Tenth Edition (Apr-May 2014). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Ohio
17,107 posts, read 38,108,718 times
Reputation: 14447
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBMD View Post
I've seen some speculation that the Justice Dept. might be rethinking it's approach to deregulation.

Day Late, Dollar Short, was the first thought that hit me.
See and I question what they'll ever be able to do about that, because of the mutual fund connection. Airline profitability is funding people's retirement plans. Politicians who mess with people's retirement will pay for it at the ballot box!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Aviation

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:33 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top