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Old 11-02-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: plano
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Given a 'stock' private jet what would likely be the longest range they can fly non stop? I heard some oil company gulfstreams can fly non stop Texas to Saudi and other middle east locations. What us known as the long range stock private jet and how far can it handle?
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:34 AM
 
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An ultra-long-range aircraft, the G650ER can travel up to 7,500 nautical miles (13,890 km) at a speed of Mach 0.85, or up to 6,400 nm (11,853 km) at the higher operating speed of Mach 0.90. This is an increase in range of up to 500 nm (926 km) over the original G650.

The longest commercial flight is Dallas/Fort Worth to Sydney (Qantas:QF 8) is 7,454 nautical miles (13,804 km) on an Airbus A380-800. Prior to 29 September 2014 the route was covered using a B747 which meant it was required to stop and refuel in Brisbane on the Westbound leg. Now it is nonstop in both directions.

The Bombardier Global 8000 is targeted for entry into service in 2017 @$68.7 million, with a range of 7,900nm.

Distance from Sydney to London is 9200 nm which may be possible within 10 years on a commercial flight. Analysts say the 777 is Boeing's most profitable plane, thanks largely to the 777-300ER, a 365-seat version that began operations in 2004. The 777-8X, boasting a range of 9,500 nautical miles, would be designed for some of the world's longest trips such as from the Middle East to South America. Presumably there will be a business jet variation

Traditionally Australians fly to Singapore where there is a wide range of options to europe
Singapore Airlines: Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, London-Heathrow, Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Rome-Fiumicino, Zürich Seasonal: Athens
Air France: Paris-Charles de Gaulle
British Airways : London-Heathrow, Sydney
Finnair : Helsinki
KLM: Amsterdam
Lufthansa: Frankfurt
Turkish Airlines: Istanbul-Atatürk
Qantas has abandoned the layover in Singapore in favor of the new A380 terminal in Dubai,
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:35 AM
 
Location: plano
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Thanks. I did the Houston to Singapore a few times a year in the early 2000's. The routing was through Tokyo. A non stop optin would have been appealing to me then. The four hour wait in Tokyo to catch the Singapore leg flight felt like forever. What many European travelers don't realize is the flight to Singapore from Tokyo was nearly as long as the Texas to London flight. Asia is huge.

Do the stock private jets get modified for longer range often or are most operated as designed?

What on earth do you do that makes you such a fabulous wealth of aviation knowledge? Thanks for the responses always.
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Old 11-03-2015, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
Thanks. I did the Houston to Singapore a few times a year in the early 2000's. The routing was through Tokyo. A non stop optin would have been appealing to me then. The four hour wait in Tokyo to catch the Singapore leg flight felt like forever. What many European travelers don't realize is the flight to Singapore from Tokyo was nearly as long as the Texas to London flight. Asia is huge.
As Singapore Airlines (SIA) is a member of Star Alliance (as is United Airlines) I suspect that once the 777-8X, with a range of 9,500 nautical miles is available, SIA will want to fly nonstop to two United hubs. Newark Airport (8262 nm) and Houston (8640 nm) are probably preferable to Chicago, Dulles, San Francisco, Denver and LAX.

I could be wrong about that choice, but I think Houston will be much more preferable to LAX since United controls so many feeder flights to the airport. Plus it is more centrally located. SIA will probably maintain it's 5th freedom flight to LAX via Tokyo, because I think it is profitable. Chicago is also a possibility.

Europeans don't fly the ultra long flights. British Airways flight of 11,111 km to Buenos Aires is their longest. That is only 10% longer than the Madrid and Buenos Aires commercial flight on the Boeing 707 established in 1967 (before widebody airplanes existed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
Do the stock private jets get modified for longer range often or are most operated as designed?
Private jets often have optional fuel tanks to give them longer range. The cost of doing a private modification and getting it certified would be overwhelming. I am sure it would be cheaper to get a more expensive model.

But sometimes they just have to grin and bear it. The Secretary of State's plane can fly to Western Europe and return nonstop. But he can't reach Sochi Russia (5520 miles) or Antalya Turkey (5470 miles). Sochi to Antalya is only 660 miles. So Secretary Kerry had a meeting in May with Putin in Russia (8 hours), followed by a morning meeting at NATO conference in Turkey and had to be back in Washington DC for a 6:00 p.m. to accompany President Obama at a working dinner with Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) leaders, at the White House. But the plane (B757-200) had to squeeze in a refueling stop in Ireland in both directions.

Wikipedia lists the unrefueled range of a (C-32A) as 11,100 km (6897 statute miles) but it seems as if they don't actually risk that distance with a living Secretary onboard. The flight distance of about 5500 sm still requires a refueling stop even with a Whitehouse dinner on the schedule.

In fact Secretary Kerry had to stop 10 times just for refueling on his 11 trips this year over 10,000 total miles. The other 10 trips under 10K miles did not require dedicated refueling stops.

The longest scheduled Boeing 757-200 commercial flight is 4,170 statute mile. The longest flight that Secretary Kerry did to a single stop this year without intermediate refueling was 4,122 statute miles.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 11-03-2015 at 08:35 AM..
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
As Singapore Airlines (SIA) is a member of Star Alliance (as is United Airlines) I suspect that once the 777-8X, with a range of 9,500 nautical miles is available, SIA will want to fly nonstop to two United hubs. Newark Airport (8262 nm) and Houston (8640 nm) are probably preferable to Chicago, Dulles, San Francisco, Denver and LAX.

I could be wrong about that choice, but I think Houston will be much more preferable to LAX since United controls so many feeder flights to the airport. Plus it is more centrally located. SIA will probably maintain it's 5th freedom flight to LAX via Tokyo, because I think it is profitable. Chicago is also a possibility.

Europeans don't fly the ultra long flights. British Airways flight of 11,111 km to Buenos Aires is their longest. That is only 10% longer than the Madrid and Buenos Aires commercial flight on the Boeing 707 established in 1967 (before widebody airplanes existed).



Private jets often have optional fuel tanks to give them longer range. The cost of doing a private modification and getting it certified would be overwhelming. I am sure it would be cheaper to get a more expensive model.

But sometimes they just have to grin and bear it. The Secretary of State's plane can fly to Western Europe and return nonstop. But he can't reach Sochi Russia (5520 miles) or Antalya Turkey (5470 miles). Sochi to Antalya is only 660 miles. So Secretary Kerry had a meeting in May with Putin in Russia (8 hours), followed by a morning meeting at NATO conference in Turkey and had to be back in Washington DC for a 6:00 p.m. to accompany President Obama at a working dinner with Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) leaders, at the White House. But the plane (B757-200) had to squeeze in a refueling stop in Ireland in both directions.

Wikipedia lists the unrefueled range of a (C-32A) as 11,100 km (6897 statute miles) but it seems as if they don't actually risk that distance with a living Secretary onboard. The flight distance of about 5500 sm still requires a refueling stop even with a Whitehouse dinner on the schedule.

In fact Secretary Kerry had to stop 10 times just for refueling on his 11 trips this year over 10,000 total miles. The other 10 trips under 10K miles did not require dedicated refueling stops.

The longest scheduled Boeing 757-200 commercial flight is 4,170 statute mile. The longest flight that Secretary Kerry did to a single stop this year without intermediate refueling was 4,122 statute miles.
SQ has chosen the A350-900ULR for their SIN-EWR/SIN-LAX routes

Airbus launches new Ultra-Long Range version of the A350-900*| Airbus Press release
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: NYPD"s 30th Precinct
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The Bombardier Global 8000 is targeted for entry into service in 2017 @$68.7 million, with a range of 7,900nm.
Bombardier also has plans for a version of the 8000 with an extra fuel tank, which will push its range to just shy of 10,000nm, making it the longest range civil aircraft in existence.
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Old 11-07-2015, 04:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Febtober View Post
Bombardier also has plans for a version of the 8000 with an extra fuel tank, which will push its range to just shy of 10,000nm, making it the longest range civil aircraft in existence.
The distance between two antipodes (halfway around the earth) is 2*90 degrees*60 minutes=10,800 nautical miles.

So I don't think there is a single route in existence between even mid size cities over 10,000 nm. Still, I think that this aircraft will sell primarily in Australia.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The distance between two antipodes (halfway around the earth) is 2*90 degrees*60 minutes=10,800 nautical miles.

So I don't think there is a single route in existence between even mid size cities over 10,000 nm. Still, I think that this aircraft will sell primarily in Australia.
Shanghai and Buenos Aires are 10,580 nautical miles apart.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Shanghai and Buenos Aires are 10,580 nautical miles apart.
I stand corrected. You are right!

31.1981° N, 121.3364° Shanghai
34.8222° S, 58.5358° W Buenos Aires
66.0203° latitude, 179.8722° longitude Difference

90° latitude, 180° longitude Difference for perfect antipodes
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Old 11-09-2015, 07:29 AM
 
Location: plano
6,565 posts, read 8,094,240 times
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How is the optimal route between two cities determined? I know flying Houston to Tokyo is routed up the east side of the rockies than west just south of G he Alaska coast and on to Tokyo where the return crosses the Pacific on a more southerly route. I assume this is due largely to prevailing jet stream.
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