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Old 07-30-2016, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,205 posts, read 3,322,389 times
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Usually a major reason for "shrinking" airplane on the same basic platform is that pilots only need one type rating for 318/319/320/321 and the airplanes can spontanously be exchanged by each other, depending on demand and availiability.

The problem with that thing is usually the mainline pilots flying a 320/321 are anyways very expensive, so additionally to having a less efficient airplane compared to a CRJ or EMB they also have a more expensive crew. This eats up all the benefits of a homogenous fleet.

The A380 is a prestige thing for sure, not only for Airbus but also for many airlines. There is no airplane as comfortable and nice for passengers as the A380 in my opinion. But at the same time, Airbus and Boeing had different opinions on how the market will develop (A380 for HUB to HUB, 787 for Point to Point).
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:40 AM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,424,739 times
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Originally Posted by Des-Lab View Post
Both Concorde (built by ancestors of Airbus, but not actually BY Airbus) and the A380 were planes designed and built purely for pride, image, ego, and nationalistic reasons only. Not because either made any sense from the financials.
The first Airbus A380-841 was delivered to Singapore Airlines on 15. Oct 2007. Now the plane suffers from technology that is at least a decade out of date.

I don't suppose it is possible to prove, but if the first plane had been delivered on 15. Oct 2015, I think the program may have been a success financially. International aviation had a rough decade, but the market for a plane that can carry as many as 850 seats is there.

It may never exist for airlines in the Americas (Canada, USA, Latin America), but it is a popular way to get there from Sydney, Dubai, London, Paris, and Frankfurt.

Emirates has 81 Airbus A380s, and is due to get 11 more with the Engine Alliance option. They have an order for an additional 50 planes with Rolls Royce engines placed in 2013 (an order designed partly to save the A380 program). But since it seems clear that a neoA380 program is never going to exist, I still think Emirates is crazy to purchase these 50 planes. Even at the reduced production schedule of 12 per year beginning in 2018, Emirates will receive almost all 50 planes before more than a few of the old A380s are retired. They will then be stuck with the infrastructure to handle ~ 142 A380s with no replacements on the horizon. They are much better off cancelling their order at the end of EA deliveries, which can be served with their current A380 terminal #3 (23 gates dedicated to the A380), and concentrating on expanding their fleet of 132 Boeing 777-300s.
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Old 08-02-2016, 03:32 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,205 posts, read 3,322,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The first Airbus A380-841 was delivered to Singapore Airlines on 15. Oct 2007. Now the plane suffers from technology that is at least a decade out of date.

I don't suppose it is possible to prove, but if the first plane had been delivered on 15. Oct 2015, I think the program may have been a success financially. International aviation had a rough decade, but the market for a plane that can carry as many as 850 seats is there.

It may never exist for airlines in the Americas (Canada, USA, Latin America), but it is a popular way to get there from Sydney, Dubai, London, Paris, and Frankfurt.

Emirates has 81 Airbus A380s, and is due to get 11 more with the Engine Alliance option. They have an order for an additional 50 planes with Rolls Royce engines placed in 2013 (an order designed partly to save the A380 program). But since it seems clear that a neoA380 program is never going to exist, I still think Emirates is crazy to purchase these 50 planes. Even at the reduced production schedule of 12 per year beginning in 2018, Emirates will receive almost all 50 planes before more than a few of the old A380s are retired. They will then be stuck with the infrastructure to handle ~ 142 A380s with no replacements on the horizon. They are much better off cancelling their order at the end of EA deliveries, which can be served with their current A380 terminal #3 (23 gates dedicated to the A380), and concentrating on expanding their fleet of 132 Boeing 777-300s.
The problem for EK is traffic rights. For every country in Europe, especially Germany, they have a very limited number of flights allowed per week. Due to the lobby of European airlines, this will not change so quickly. Therefore they will have to change all "good" routes to A380 once or twice per day, instead of going with a 777-300 3-4x per day. Another big argument for the A380 is the high popularity among passengers, and due to its two decks and three possible entrances, boarding is quite fast and efficient.
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:39 PM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,424,739 times
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Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
A380 once or twice per day, instead of going with a 777-300 3-4x per day.
Emirates configuration Seats:
Airbus A380-800: 489,517,615
Boeing 777-300ER: 360,428


Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
The problem for EK is traffic rights. For every country in Europe, especially Germany, they have a very limited number of flights allowed per week. Due to the lobby of European airlines, this will not change so quickly.
I agree. The business case for the A380 had never been this good since the first one was delivered in 15 October 2007. Traffic levels are at an all time high, the airports are very crowded, and fuel prices are very low.

If Emirates put in this order for 50 more A380s with Rolls Royce engines in December 2013 when fuel prices were much higher, it is a reasonable question as to why they would no longer want these planes in December 2016.

But Emirates put that order in partly as a way to save the A380 program. In turn they were hoping for a neoA380 program which they have already offered an order for 150 neoA380s as encouragement for Airbus to begin such a program.

But despite the good business case, Emirates will receive all of these 50 A380s before they have retired very many of the 92 Engine Alliance A380s. Terminal #3 at Dubai International Airport with 23 dedicated gates for the A380 will not be able to handle this new order. Dubai will have to build a new Terminal for a program with no future.

Plus consider Al Maktoum International Airport. If completed as planned, the airport will have an annual cargo capacity of 12 million tonnes, and a passenger capacity of up to 160 million people per year. This would make it the largest airport in the world in both physical size and passenger volume. Al Maktoum International Airport will be linked to the existing Dubai International Airport by a proposed high-speed express rail system, and served by the Dubai Metro and a dedicated Dubai World Central light railway.

Consider the cost of building custom terminals at Al Maktoum for a plane that won't be part of Emirates much past 2032.

It looks like Emirates is going to go through with the order anyway. The last 9 Engine Alliance airframes have had their first flight between 26. Feb 2016 - 19. Jul 2016 and should be delivered this year. However the first three airframes outfitted with the Rolls Royce Trent 972 have had their first flight already (on 23 Jun 2016, 12 & 26 Jul 2016 ).

Last edited by PacoMartin; 08-02-2016 at 08:59 PM..
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