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Old 05-12-2017, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,454 posts, read 2,481,494 times
Reputation: 1987

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
In the 70s and 80s you put sensitive company documents in the baggage hold? Even though it was actually possible to securely lock your suitcase then (which isn't the case now), I rather doubt it. Even in the 70s and 80s luggage could go missing, and items could be stolen from checked bags (although it was harder then).

The issue isn't simply about inflight entertainment. It's about a policy which will force people to place items like expensive DSLRs, corporate-issued laptops containing extremely sensitive data, or government laptops containing classified information into checked luggage, where they may be lost, broken, or stolen. That's an absolute non-starter for a lot of people.
Er, no one should be carrying classified information outside the country and even really outside of a controlled environment. Likewise you are really dumb if you carry trade secrets out of the country on a laptop with any expectation of privacy. Almost every country has customs and border controls that allow unfettered access to a persons data. Simple OPSEC obviates all your arguments on sensitive data. Just don't do it....
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,298 posts, read 7,890,697 times
Reputation: 27607
Quote:
Originally Posted by timfountain View Post
Simple OPSEC obviates all your arguments on sensitive data. Just don't do it....
But people DO do it. They do it because they have to do it in order to get their work done. Read the last few pages of this Flyertalk thread (where the effect of this policy on government employees is brought up): https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chec...europe-us.html

Computers stopped being toys and became essential business tools holding sensitive information over a decade ago. This proposed ban will cause major problems for many business and government workers who have sensitive information on their electronic devices.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,858 posts, read 11,874,817 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by timfountain View Post
Er, no one should be carrying classified information outside the country and even really outside of a controlled environment. Likewise you are really dumb if you carry trade secrets out of the country on a laptop with any expectation of privacy. Almost every country has customs and border controls that allow unfettered access to a persons data. Simple OPSEC obviates all your arguments on sensitive data. Just don't do it....
So how would you suggest classified information be... communicated internationally? Email? Carrier pigeon? What a ridiculous POV. You didn't think this through did you? So bent on supporting the contrarian argument. As usual though, when you are backing the reductio ad absurdum... ... the truth is, that until recently, the safest way to transfer sensitive information, was in a laptop computer that never left the physical supervision of its courier. And if you don't believe that those responsible for trying to undrmine this paradigm aren't aware of that you would be wrong.

All of you backing this should be careful what you ask for. A world where borders are closed, and communication restricted, is a world where WWIII can happen. Like WWII happened. Like WWI happened. WWIII will be a doozy. The nukes we have now make the Fat Man atom bomb look like an M80 firecracker. Humanity will be sent back to the Bronze Age and will probably not survive. Globalization was not a bad thing. It was abused by the Crony Capitalists and became injurious to the economic welfare of many, but the core values of international cooperation were sound. We mess with that at our peril. FWIW.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,298 posts, read 7,890,697 times
Reputation: 27607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
the truth is, that until recently, the safest way to transfer sensitive information, was in a laptop computer that never left the physical supervision of its courier.
There's been some speculation on Flyertalk that if this ban is indeed implemented it might spur the development of laptops with easily-removable solid state hard drives that would marketed to business travelers. The owner would be able to easily unplug the hard drive (which is very small, so it meets the carryon size restrictions for electronics) from the computer and then check the shell. If on arrival the shell was lost or damaged, the hard drive and all the data on it would be safe and a new shell could be purchased. Basically, this would be like turning the hard drive into a thumb drive or an SD card.

Of course, the problem is that that is a solution which isn't available right now. Removing the hard drive from a standard laptop is currently the opposite of easy. And of course there would be expense involved in replacing the shell, just as there would be expense involved in replacing my camera bodies and lenses if they went AWOL from a checked bag. But at least the hard drive data, like my pictures stored on removable SD cards, wouldn't be lost if the worst happened.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,511 posts, read 4,443,742 times
Reputation: 5764
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man in SATX View Post
HAA HAA.. this makes me laugh.. what are you going to do on a plane for that long? Ask those of us that did it in the 70's and 80's. Come on.. these days everyone is freaking spoiled. Sit on the plane and have a conversation with fellow passengers.. how about talking to your unknown neighbor? Some of these posts show the mind frames of people today...
From what I've gathered, flying was miserable in those days. Actually, I also heard they at least had more legroom and space before converting coach to "cattle class".


Plus
--not everyone wants to talk
--some employers expect their employees to get work done while on the plane
--no, they didn't have laptops back in the 80s and 70s, but we have them now, and that's how these companies get work done




If you're going to go back to the 70s and 80s, why not go further back? Let's return to the 20s when there were no planes... no flying, no more fuss!
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,195,139 times
Reputation: 39026
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man in SATX View Post
HAA HAA.. this makes me laugh.. what are you going to do on a plane for that long? Ask those of us that did it in the 70's and 80's. Come on.. these days everyone is freaking spoiled. Sit on the plane and have a conversation with fellow passengers.. how about talking to your unknown neighbor? Some of these posts show the mind frames of people today...
Awwwwww, HELLLL naw! Even interesting people are boring after 10 minutes. No way I am belted into an 18 inch wide seat for 7 hours next to a random who wants to talk about their grandkids!

I will bury my nose in a Tamil edition of War and Peace and claim to only speak a very obscure Finno-Ugrian language.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:23 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 2,968,694 times
Reputation: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
There's been some speculation on Flyertalk that if this ban is indeed implemented it might spur the development of laptops with easily-removable solid state hard drives that would marketed to business travelers. The owner would be able to easily unplug the hard drive (which is very small, so it meets the carryon size restrictions for electronics) from the computer and then check the shell. If on arrival the shell was lost or damaged, the hard drive and all the data on it would be safe and a new shell could be purchased. Basically, this would be like turning the hard drive into a thumb drive or an SD card.

Of course, the problem is that that is a solution which isn't available right now. Removing the hard drive from a standard laptop is currently the opposite of easy. And of course there would be expense involved in replacing the shell, just as there would be expense involved in replacing my camera bodies and lenses if they went AWOL from a checked bag. But at least the hard drive data, like my pictures stored on removable SD cards, wouldn't be lost if the worst happened.


I haven't looked at civilian versions that would do this but military wise, pretty much all of our laptops are like this. They aren't anything special either. The HD just slips in and out of the laptop from the side.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,298 posts, read 7,890,697 times
Reputation: 27607
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
I haven't looked at civilian versions that would do this but military wise, pretty much all of our laptops are like this. They aren't anything special either. The HD just slips in and out of the laptop from the side.
Many ordinary laptops have the hard drive inside the laptop as an integral part of the machine; you have to crack the laptop open to access and remove the drive (because why would you want to remove it unless it fails?). Even the batteries are often an integral part of the machine these days. The trend has been to more integration of the hardware and away from modular design, which is unfortunate in this case.

Is the HD on your machine the same size or smaller than a standard smartphone? Because that's the other criterion it would have to meet to be permitted in the plane cabin. I have a nice point-and-shoot camera (Olympus XZ-1) that I travel with when space is tight, and it's not very big - but it's slightly too thick to meet the size requirements of the electronics ban as it currently stands for the Middle East airports, and I'd be forced to check that camera if I flew home from one of those airports.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:35 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 2,968,694 times
Reputation: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Many ordinary laptops have the hard drive inside the laptop as an integral part of the machine; you have to crack the laptop open to access and remove the drive (because why would you want to remove it unless it fails?). Even the batteries are often an integral part of the machine these days. The trend has been to more integration of the hardware and away from modular design, which is unfortunate in this case.

Is the HD on your machine the same size or smaller than a standard smartphone? Because that's the other criterion it would have to meet to be permitted in the plane cabin. I have a nice point-and-shoot camera (Olympus XZ-1) that I travel with when space is tight, and it's not very big - but it's slightly too thick to meet the size requirements of the electronics ban as it currently stands for the Middle East airports, and I'd be forced to check that camera if I flew home from one of those airports.


Ours are on the side, held in by a screw and are the size of a smart phone. There is a cover that can go over the HD but most of them don't have the covers anymore. They are very simple to put in and take out.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,298 posts, read 7,890,697 times
Reputation: 27607
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
Ours are on the side, held in by a screw and are the size of a smart phone. There is a cover that can go over the HD but most of them don't have the covers anymore. They are very simple to put in and take out.
Sounds like you're golden, then. I expect that design of laptop is about to become VERY popular, at least among road warriors.
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