Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Marketing 101: Attractions result in sales; Detractions/Distractions result in fails.
I haven't flown in years. By my choice. It's the airlines choice whether or not to make their product attractive to me. Due to current pricing and accommodations, they don't! So my choice is to not buy their product. Hey... no harm, no foul cuts both ways, right?
I'm top 8% in height, top 2% in weight, won't pay for business class, won't tolerate being treated worse than cattle. Fortunately, I don't need the airlines so it's easy for me to walk away from a product that detracts from my comfort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate
I am curious would other industries follow the airlines in cramming seating. I mean I haven't seen this happening much with trains, buses, and theatres, stadiums, arenas, much yet though would they also follow suit seeing they could sell more seats per event
You're either much younger than me, have a much smaller body size than I do, or live in a less dense area. I've seen reductions in seating size within all of the above.
Haven't gone to the theater in years either. It's not the money but the comfort (or lack thereof) — especially the cheap seats. Which happens to be what far-sighted people like me would prefer.
Fortunately, I'm not a movie maven feeling a need to see current Hollywood fare so it's easy for me to walk away from another product that detracts from my comfort. Ditto for arenas. I've built an awesome home cinema with the money saved.
That said, I've noticed more aggressive seating compression in highly populated areas. Not a scientific study. Merely my own anecdotal observation as a plus-size person. A reason I avoid NYC like the plague!
But I DO like outdoor concerts. More and more, they're stand-up!
Would I patronize businesses that better accommodate my physique? Yeah, probably — since attractions result in sales. But if they don't, I can live without them. Once again, no harm, no foul.
Booking a flight is like booking a room. If you spend a night in a Motel6, don't complain that the accommodations aren't as nice as down the road at the Hyatt. If you want the Hyatt's amenities, stay there. If you don't want to pay more than the $50/night that Motel6 charges, then stay there. Ditto for flying. There are other options than economy. Are they more expensive? Sure are. That ribeye cooked to order is spendier than a Big Mac, too. Welcome to the world.
If I book a room in either the Hyatt or the Motel 6, I expect to get a bed that's big enough for the average adult to sleep on. I don't expect that I'll get a king-sized bed in the Hyatt but a cot in the Motel 6, simply because I paid different rates. Of course, I'll expect better service and more amenities in the Hyatt . . . but I'll expect a sleepable bed in either place.
And it's not as easy as saying "just book business class." The difference between the Hyatt and the Motel 6, for a family of 4, might be $200 per night. But the difference for that same family of 4 flying internationally in economy versus business class is measured in terms of multiple thousands of dollars. In other words, it's the difference between taking the trip and not going at all.
Booking a flight is like booking a room. If you spend a night in a Motel6, don't complain that the accommodations aren't as nice as down the road at the Hyatt. If you want the Hyatt's amenities, stay there. If you don't want to pay more than the $50/night that Motel6 charges, then stay there. Ditto for flying. There are other options than economy. Are they more expensive? Sure are. That ribeye cooked to order is spendier than a Big Mac, too. Welcome to the world.
I don't understand why they don't just charge a little more per seat, instead of squeezing in more people. Why don't all the airlines raise their rates a little? Why is that viewed as a big deal?
I don't understand why they don't just charge a little more per seat, instead of squeezing in more people. Why don't all the airlines raise their rates a little? Why is that viewed as a big deal?
Because the American consumer has shown time and time again that they value price far more than comfort in air travel. So blame your fellow citizens and residents for that
If United wants to pack 'em in like sardines, that's their right as a competitor in a free marketplace. But they can do it without me.
+1
I'm not ever going to suffer through 25,000 miles with no FT status to get to the Economy Plus seats. I'll book Southwest and throw the $15 at it to get early boarding where I can grab an aisle seat. I can suffer through the narrow 737 seat with lousy seat pitch if I can spill out into the aisle and get up and walk around every 30 minutes. If you try to book most United flights a week in advance, there are no aisle seats left and you're back in a middle death seat sniffing the blue toilet water. My corporate bean counters aren't going to let me shell out several hundred bucks for an economy plus seat on a domestic flight.
There’s video of the A380 passing its 90 second evacuation test for the FAA on YouTube. Impressive stuff
When you know you are having a test/drill it is usually very easy to do what you are supposed to
And I imagine those people were paid to participate
Remember the film Sully---
The FAA showed video of why Sully was wrong to make the choice he did and they showed a better way that made landing at the airport viable--
So they could crush him for his audacity for trying something so unlikely and not having any casualties
The trick was they had their practice pilots practice the same manuver like 45 times before they got it right and they started immediately after the birds' impact in the engines
No call to the tower for info == no assessment of the situation
They didn't tell about all the times THEIR pilots tried and crashed the simulators--
Sully had only one try and while he did something probably no other pilot could have done and succeeded
He DID succeed
there is no way I believe a practiced, premeditated evacuation drill for what everyone knew was a NON-event is how a live ---we are making emergency landing and are on fire-evac drill might go...
And believe me I fly AA, Spirit (very crowded and uncomfortable), and Southwest in the states--no overseas
There are older people who can't get in and out quickly AT ALL
There are people with babies and ones with "service dogs" and people who don't listen to instruction
I just think there is no way there would be an "orderly" evacuation of most planes...
Especially when people cannot achieve exiting of their rows because of how their bodies have to be constricted
Sully' crew had flown together and had many hours of experience just as he did
That is not always the case for flights today--either for pilots or cabin people...
Booking a flight is like booking a room. If you spend a night in a Motel6, don't complain that the accommodations aren't as nice as down the road at the Hyatt. If you want the Hyatt's amenities, stay there. If you don't want to pay more than the $50/night that Motel6 charges, then stay there. Ditto for flying. There are other options than economy. Are they more expensive? Sure are. That ribeye cooked to order is spendier than a Big Mac, too. Welcome to the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man
If I book a room in either the Hyatt or the Motel 6, I expect to get a bed that's big enough for the average adult to sleep on. I don't expect that I'll get a king-sized bed in the Hyatt but a cot in the Motel 6, simply because I paid different rates. Of course, I'll expect better service and more amenities in the Hyatt . . . but I'll expect a sleepable bed in either place.
And it's not as easy as saying "just book business class." The difference between the Hyatt and the Motel 6, for a family of 4, might be $200 per night. But the difference for that same family of 4 flying internationally in economy versus business class is measured in terms of multiple thousands of dollars. In other words, it's the difference between taking the trip and not going at all.
Hulsker's argument is, IMO, mostly (but not completely) valid. Better seats should be more money just like that Hyatt (or I prefer Hilton) rooms should be more than a Motel 6. There is also no reason Motel 6 couldn't opt to put a cot in the room, other than Motel 6 decided even at a low price point they must provide the minimum of a bed in order to be competitive. To go to cots is basically going to a hostel (which is generally even less money).
But this raises the point I think Hulsker and others are missing: sufficient competition. On the ground there are a large number of hotels/motels to choose from and therefore pushes a higher "minimum standard" (and that number of hotels/motels and chains is increasing without counting AirBNB). Not so in the airport. While we may talk about airline deregulation, it's something of a facade. The regulation comes practically in the airport, and government regulation THERE does a lot to preclude real competition. Because of the immense difficulty to get gates, the big airlines have effectively colluded with government to the point that the big 4 (American, United, Delta, and Southwest) control something like 85% of U.S. flights. This is why airlines can get away with cramming more people into tighter spaces, or charge vastly more money for better seats.
In the end, the combination of limited true competition and Americans desire for cheap flights leads to the sardine effect. If Southwest's corporate ethos wasn't a fair chunk better than the other three, I have serious doubts I'd ever fly.
It's United. What do you expect. Besides, in the end it's all about money. United wants more seats for more passengers for more money. You want to spend less money so you're willing to be a sardine for a few hours.
I'm not ever going to suffer through 25,000 miles with no FT status to get to the Economy Plus seats. I'll book Southwest and throw the $15 at it to get early boarding where I can grab an aisle seat. I can suffer through the narrow 737 seat with lousy seat pitch if I can spill out into the aisle and get up and walk around every 30 minutes. If you try to book most United flights a week in advance, there are no aisle seats left and you're back in a middle death seat sniffing the blue toilet water. My corporate bean counters aren't going to let me shell out several hundred bucks for an economy plus seat on a domestic flight.
Pay the difference yourself.
If airlines thought there was a market for a meaningful middle-priced product, for example 8 across on a 777 with what Economy Plus now offers in legroom, they would provide it and I might buy it. I'm too big for regular coach seat widths.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
