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It would be more like the surgeon saying " Nurse, scalpel, please", as a comparison and I can imagine the kid handing over a spatula.
And you think that would be appropriate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookmeister
From the news report: In one recording, a child can be heard saying, "JetBlue 171, cleared for takeoff." Five words.
In that ONE transmission. There were at least 4 other exchanges between the child and the various pilots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookmeister
Not to make light of the seriousness of the jobs ATC have, but anyone could make a recording of themselves saying those words, edit it to sound like Bugs Bunny or Elmer Fudd, and the message would still be the same. The kids simply repeated words they'd been instructed to, probably heard it said a couple of times at home and in the tower, so what's the harm in them speaking them into a microphone? It's not as if the pilots were being instructed into some complicated holding pattern or emergency maneuver!
It's an over reaction to some minor infraction. If it was in anyway a major issue, the pilots on that frequency at that time would have sounded the alarm.They even joked about it!
There are easily 20-30 controllers in the tower at JFK at any given time therefore one controller clearing a plane for take off isn't going to affect an emergency situation. They have planes making emergency landings on a runaway and other controllers handling other duties at the same time as well.
Twent to thirty controllers, each with his own work to do. Babysitting and making sure to clean up after kids talking to pilots isn't in their job description.
NOTHING justifies little children directing pilots at a huge airport. Not ANY airport.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookmeister
FAA arranges tours of their facilities, including towers all the time and the story about the kids in control of the plane isn't to the same scale. It would be more like the pilot telling a kid to say Welcome aboard flight XYZ to the passengers.
Sorry, but if I was on one of those flights and heard that a little child cleared it from the tower, I would consider it on the same scale.
This is unnacceptable!! My husband has been working in the airline industry almost 20 years and just shook his head when he heard. No common sense. Hopefully they will be let go and not just suspended temporarily!
It's like letting the kids sit in the Fire Engine and turn on the siren.
I would have to disagree with this....sitting in the fire engine is a totally different thing than riding along on an actual call...If the kids were in a tower that was set up but not currently in use and there were no actual aircraft filled with people then it might be comparable.
I would have to disagree with this....sitting in the fire engine is a totally different thing than riding along on an actual call...If the kids were in a tower that was set up but not currently in use and there were no actual aircraft filled with people then it might be comparable.
Actually the fire station is always on call, the firemen are on the clock while showing the kids around, so it is the same in that respect that they are all working.
Our recent field trip to the fire station with my son and all the first graders had a call interrupt right in the middle of our trip. They simply moved us out of the way, got in their trucks and left.
Of course they wouldn't allow a trip if they were in the middle of a call, just like a controller would not allow anyone else to communicate with a pilot if there were not calm routine conditions.
Of course they wouldn't allow a trip if they were in the middle of a call, just like a controller would not allow anyone else to communicate with a pilot if there were not calm routine conditions.
Not the same. A call is a call...that would infer that the kids in the firetruck could go along on a "routine" call....They can't and shouldn't. You never know when that "routine" call changes into a crisis. At the firestation, they got the kids out of the way and left they did NOT say, "hmmm...this appears to be a routine call...would someone like to ride along and see a firefighter in action?"
Absolutely the child/ren should not have been on the radio. If I were the pilot, I would not have accepted that as my authorization. So now, we have a delay in my response time. Those planes come in and take off at JFK in very short intervals. Any delay in pilot response time is critical.
The FAA has very strict rules because of the life and death situation the controllers are handling. In fact, back in 1968 the ATC union went on strike and then President Reagan fired all of them. Air traffic at that time was far less than what it is today. The reason for the strike? overworked ATC. They claimed it was unsafe. So let's bring a child into the tower and create distraction.
Not the same. A call is a call...that would infer that the kids in the firetruck could go along on a "routine" call....They can't and shouldn't. You never know when that "routine" call changes into a crisis. At the firestation, they got the kids out of the way and left they did NOT say, "hmmm...this appears to be a routine call...would someone like to ride along and see a firefighter in action?"
I see it differently. When the firemen are at the station and their day in day out activity there is occurring, it's calm and routine. When the weather is clear and the schedule is normal then the air traffic controllers are in their calm and routine state as well.
When the firemen get a call, it is no longer calm and routine and when the weather is questionable or the schedule is off, then it's no longer calm and routine.
Just like the firemen have quieter and less stressful times, so do the controllers.
As do the police, doctors, EMTs and anyone else who works in life or death situations. No one is at high stress all the time.
Now, if the story was saying an adult totally turned over their job to a child (or anyone else unqualified) it would be different. Or if they allowed a child (or anyone else unqualified) to participate during a potential crisis, it would be a different story.
I get what you are saying but it's still different....I understand that firefighters are "on call" anytime they are at the station....but still...a call is a call and a flight is a flight. There is a vast difference between allowing visitors to observe during a "calm and routine" time (although I'm having a difficult time picturing daytime at JFK being "calm and routine" - maybe 3 am?) and allowing a child to participate (however slightly) during actual response - be it "routine" or not....it serves no purpose and it is a distraction in a place where distractions can have fatal results....We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one....
Last edited by maciesmom; 03-04-2010 at 10:42 AM..
Absolutely the child/ren should not have been on the radio. If I were the pilot, I would not have accepted that as my authorization. So now, we have a delay in my response time. Those planes come in and take off at JFK in very short intervals. Any delay in pilot response time is critical.
The FAA has very strict rules because of the life and death situation the controllers are handling. In fact, back in 1968 the ATC union went on strike and then President Reagan fired all of them. Air traffic at that time was far less than what it is today. The reason for the strike? overworked ATC. They claimed it was unsafe. So let's bring a child into the tower and create distraction.
That was egregious bad judgment.
Reagan was not President back in 1968.
And are you saying that the ATC today is overworked still, in similar condition the past 15+ years? No.
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