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Old 10-14-2011, 12:01 PM
 
3,248 posts, read 3,931,266 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.K. View Post
Same could be said for Frankford Estates in NE, Orchard Ridge in East.

Woodlands is correct: I live right down the street from the recent Frankford Estatesdevelopment, and while the racial demographic has not changed much, the economic demographic certainly has: perhaps you will remember the low-rent, decrepit den of vice apartment complex that used to occupy that site? As to Orchard Ridge, while much of it still appears to be under-inhabited, all of Gardenville/Frankford/Cedonia is delighted that the blighted projects along the former "Freedom Way" are finally gone.
There is an aspect of racial gentrification I have not seen mentioned, and you may either condemn or condone Mayor/Governor O'Malley for this one: the integration of thousands of (often illegal or "non-documented") Hispanics into older, poor or lower middle-class E/SE neighborhoods. While large-scale displacement of the black population is not occurring in these areas, I've long suspected that there may be an element of racism involved: the old "Well, at least they work" argument.

The Latino population of Baltimore is an interesting issue. I am surprised that Baltimore doesnt have a larger latin population given the affordability of the housing (lack of jobs at all levels is likely the reason). Latinos have moved into historically blue collar white neighborhoods and I have not heard about some of the cultural rubs that often occur between ethnic groups when one enters another's sacred marble step and formstone neighborhood. I suspect that the Latinos in Highlandtown and Greektown are more "tolerated" than other ethnic groups because of their perceived work ethic ( I say perceived because I dont want to totally sterotype any group though this is intented as a complement)

Many operate their own businesses or work at local businesses whether its a neighborhood restaurant or a local contracting company.. so they are likely more intergrated into the fabric of the neighborhood. Lets not forget that "upper" fells point has many latin businesses/restaurants that offer authentic cuisine that is adored by many.. myself included. Many may also be hired to do work for many of the homeowners and residents and therefore may be viewed as a 'desirable neighbor' especially if they charge reasonable prices. There is also no history of segregation, intergration, civil rights, riots...etc that may still be fresh on the minds of elderly residents and their offspring.. which many may feel such activities ruined their vision for the City.. That now coupled with the gentrification issue from what they consider to be "yuppies" invading the neighborhood and driving prices way up beyond the reach of their children may make many feel that living in a racially diverse neighborhood is better than wholesale economic neighborhood change
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:14 PM
 
1,202 posts, read 651,687 times
Reputation: 752
The people that suffer from gentrification are the long time residences who are forced to leave. There's nothing wrong with gentrification but people who live there aren't being taken into consideration when the changes occur.

You can't blame people for the property they live in not up to date because most of the time, it's not their fault. People buy these run down houses, don't maintain them and then rent or sell them to others for double the value and they don't have the money to fix them up themselves. That's why run down buildings exist.
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:43 PM
 
Location: The Triad (nc)
16,344 posts, read 18,921,876 times
Reputation: 13193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
You can't blame people for the property they live in...
Actually, you can.
Doing so has just been a choice some are uncomfortable making.

Quote:
There's nothing wrong with gentrification
but people who live there aren't being taken into consideration when the changes occur.
meh. If anything there has been too much consideration of them.

Or at least too much consideration that is focused more on perpetuating their circumstance
than in measures that might actually change those circumstances.

My personal observation is those who prefer to perpetuate the status quo in these areas...
have such a low opinion of the people living there that they're afraid to take responsibility
for initiating the changes that are needed believing that will blow up on them and make matters worse.

But right or wrong... not doing it has already cost everyone involved far too much.
The city, and even civilization as a whole, needs to make the effort.

Last edited by MrRational; 10-14-2011 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:32 PM
 
253 posts, read 387,747 times
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Isn't it short sighted to think gentrification does not include where the underclass gets displaced to? There is a big possibility that they might get concentrated in a place you'd want to develop later, or that crime might spread to places that were stable and hinder progress there.

About the original question, why is gentrification bad? If property taxes rise but crime does not decrease, you won't be able to sell your house. If you own a business that has been stable for a decade (like a hair/nail salon) you might suddenly lose your customer base because new residents don't patronize your establishment so that even if the new residence are wealthier there will be less money staying in the community. If you are a reliant on public transportation and suddenly can't afford to live near a bus line you might not be able to find a job you can commute to. If you are a long time renter (at market rate but without the credit needed to qualify for a mortgage) you might be forced to move to a less safe community and separate from your social network (neighbors who watch your kids, a handyman you can trust, friends who can loan you money).

Baltimore has many communities that are poor but relatively safe and stable, with families that live paycheck to paycheck. If those communities destabilize they may never recover and you'll get more people on public assistance instead of people moving up into middle class. That defeats the purpose of attracting new residents if the old ones get pushed further away from becoming middle class.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:16 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,266 times
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Default Gentrification IS bad.

Gentrification is bad because it removes the local culture and flavor of an urban area (whether race specific or not) and replaces it with homogenized, white culture. Instead of a great, local coffee shop, you get Starbucks. Instead of a local grocery store, you get Whole Foods. Instead of an awesome, local restaurant, you get TGI Friday's.

Often times, it is a matter of race, because the minorities in America live in the urban areas. It is ALWAYS about rising prices of rent, forcing those with lower income to leave. Generally, it's a fad, which means an area will become gentrified and then somewhere else will gain popularity and the new population will leave the gentrified areas.

Gentrification is awful. There's nothing good about it. I mean, unless you love being surrounded by boring, upper-middle class to upper class white folks. In which case, it's super awesome, just like every cookie cutter development that has taken away farm land from small town America.

Gentrification is destruction.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Maryland
16,832 posts, read 6,637,789 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by fennarama View Post
Gentrification is bad because it removes the local culture and flavor of an urban area (whether race specific or not) and replaces it with homogenized, white culture. Instead of a great, local coffee shop, you get Starbucks. Instead of a local grocery store, you get Whole Foods. Instead of an awesome, local restaurant, you get TGI Friday's.

Often times, it is a matter of race, because the minorities in America live in the urban areas. It is ALWAYS about rising prices of rent, forcing those with lower income to leave. Generally, it's a fad, which means an area will become gentrified and then somewhere else will gain popularity and the new population will leave the gentrified areas.

Gentrification is awful. There's nothing good about it. I mean, unless you love being surrounded by boring, upper-middle class to upper class white folks. In which case, it's super awesome, just like every cookie cutter development that has taken away farm land from small town America.

Gentrification is destruction.
Looks like for you it is about race. What culture is it that's worth keeping in Baltimore that you're referring to? Nightly murders of Black men, the drug game or should we keep the failing school system as a testament to "culture"?
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:16 AM
 
1,166 posts, read 1,200,452 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by fennarama View Post
Gentrification is bad because it removes the local culture and flavor of an urban area (whether race specific or not) and replaces it with homogenized, white culture. Instead of a great, local coffee shop, you get Starbucks. Instead of a local grocery store, you get Whole Foods. Instead of an awesome, local restaurant, you get TGI Friday's.

Often times, it is a matter of race, because the minorities in America live in the urban areas. It is ALWAYS about rising prices of rent, forcing those with lower income to leave. Generally, it's a fad, which means an area will become gentrified and then somewhere else will gain popularity and the new population will leave the gentrified areas.

Gentrification is awful. There's nothing good about it. I mean, unless you love being surrounded by boring, upper-middle class to upper class white folks. In which case, it's super awesome, just like every cookie cutter development that has taken away farm land from small town America.

Gentrification is destruction.

Not sure how familiar you are with Balitmore, but is the white neighborhoods that have been gentrified. So keep this race agenda out of this, because it is tired in useless.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:39 AM
 
9,440 posts, read 7,147,739 times
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Gentrification is GOOD because it displaces violent criminals, gangbangers and drug dealers. I don't care where they go as long as they stay away from civilized society. They could simply kill each other off or be put in prison for the duration so that the rest of us don't have to deal with them.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
7,205 posts, read 13,442,411 times
Reputation: 4374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
The Latino population of Baltimore is an interesting issue. I am surprised that Baltimore doesnt have a larger latin population given the affordability of the housing (lack of jobs at all levels is likely the reason). Latinos have moved into historically blue collar white neighborhoods and I have not heard about some of the cultural rubs that often occur between ethnic groups when one enters another's sacred marble step and formstone neighborhood. I suspect that the Latinos in Highlandtown and Greektown are more "tolerated" than other ethnic groups because of their perceived work ethic ( I say perceived because I dont want to totally sterotype any group though this is intented as a complement)
Not to turn the subject of this thread, but aside from some Americans, most
white Americans and Hispanics tend to have less racial tensions than between other groups. Perhaps it is because I was born and raised in California, and grew up with and around many Hispanics, that my perception is different. I dunno, it just seems normal to me. I'll leave it at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
The people that suffer from gentrification are the long time residences who are forced to leave. There's nothing wrong with gentrification but people who live there aren't being taken into consideration when the changes occur.
Well, gentrification takes place because of money: it is seen as an untapped area for revenue stream[s]. That is why gentrificaiton never happens in [lower] middle-class locations or higher. The people being displaced generally do not have the means to move in the first place, so it sucks even more for them when they are forced to move....and of course they are only going to move into another area they can afford; which can add a whole new slew of problems with the residents of the new area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fennarama View Post
Gentrification is bad because it removes the local culture and flavor of an urban area (whether race specific or not) and replaces it with homogenized, white culture. Instead of a great, local coffee shop, you get Starbucks. Instead of a local grocery store, you get Whole Foods. Instead of an awesome, local restaurant, you get TGI Friday's.
I agree that gentrification replaces the "local" culture with a homoginized version of "white culture", but it is always only a particular brand that it is appealing to. Namely, those with the disposable income to spend on $4 coffees everyday and overpriced clothes from boutiques. I personally like the independent coffee shops and book stores that tend to precede gentrificaiton, but I can do without the attitudes.

Also, there is a difference between gentrification and revitalization. A Whole Foods will surely pop up in or near a recently gentrified location at some point in time, but TGIF? TGIF, Applebee's, etc. are generally a little too sophomoric for the target audience that gentrification aims for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Gentrification is GOOD because it displaces violent criminals, gangbangers and drug dealers. I don't care where they go as long as they stay away from civilized society. They could simply kill each other off or be put in prison for the duration so that the rest of us don't have to deal with them.
Yeah, NIMBY. Thing is, they got to go somewhere.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:52 AM
 
201 posts, read 310,961 times
Reputation: 57
The gentrification of Federal Hill and Canton have been a tremendous boon for the city of Baltimore. Huges amounts of tax dollars coming in to make the whole city better. Who did this gentrification replace? Having lived in both places for the last 12 years, it has mostly been natural turn over of the older residents. And both of these places have gentrified by adding greatly to the culture of Baltimore, both embracing the traditional (Natty Boh, the O's, crabs, JFX Farmers Market, etc....) and adding their own stamp. For every Starbucks and Outback Steakhouse added to the city, there are 20 places like Annabel Lee Tavern and Spoons Coffehouse, great locally owned places.

It may not be true in every city, but gentrification here is a godsend.
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