Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm curious to see what people have to say about the Madison Park Area - (at least that's what the map calls it).
I see a lot of post about Reservoir Hill and Druid Hill changing for the better. However, I never see any post about Madison Park. Supposedly, Madison Park stretches from North Avenue to MLK Blvd and from Eutaw Street to McCulloh Street. According to the map this area is smack dead in between Bolton Hill, Reservoir Hill and Druid Hill and includes Marble Hill which looks pretty decent.
It's walking distance to MICA, YMCA and Bolton Hill, etc.
I think the top sliver, most people will try to just call Bolton Hill anyway. The Southern portion is where the State Center is, which may undergo a huge development eventually if the litigation ever clears. The biggest two problems for that area are McCulloh Homes and Madison Park North with create walls and fractures of gentrification. McCulloh homes maybe be the biggest, baddest public housing complex left... which still has high-rises... which are incredibly dangerous, especially for police. If the State Center project every happens, they'll probably redevelop McCulloh Homes, and it appears MPN will be gone very soon. Another huge reason that no one wants to use the name Madison Park is because they think you are talking about MPN. You hear of some gruesome crimes every once in a while in Bolton Hill.. probably because of it's proximity to places like that.
Yeah, McCulloh Homes makes the area bad in my opinion too. I see some MICA students walking over to Madison and it doesn't seem extremely dangerous but it's a big difference compared to Eutaw 1 block over. It's like a different world and the crime does spread into Bolton Hill.
If the state center project happens then McCulloh Homes probably would change. The original state center project wanted to do something with it immediately but the people living here protested it. I could see the people there trying to fight staying as long as possible.
Heard through the grapevine McCulloh Homes is designated as a historical landmark, or, is on its way to gaining that status, being one of the first public housing towers built in this country. Not sure how that will factor into any proposed redevelopment in the area, especially as the State Center project was thwarted to a degree and is progressing quite slow.
While it's a huge complex prone to issues as discussed, on the flip side, it also provides affordable housing for those (families, children, elderly) in extreme need, in a city with an incredibly limited stock of safe, sanitary, good quality rentals for those on fixed incomes and/or low-wage earners. Further public housing demolition isn't on the city's nor HUD's agenda at the moment, especially in this economy.
In terms of Madison Park, let's just say I have a hunch there will be some new changes over the next several years. The racial dynamics between surrounding neighborhoods, compounded by redlining, blockbusting, disinvestment and the aftereffects of urban renewal, are to blame.
Heard through the grapevine McCulloh Homes is designated as a historical landmark, or, is on its way to gaining that status, being one of the first public housing towers built in this country. Not sure how that will factor into any proposed redevelopment in the area, especially as the State Center project was thwarted to a degree and is progressing quite slow.
While it's a huge complex prone to issues as discussed, on the flip side, it also provides affordable housing for those (families, children, elderly) in extreme need, in a city with an incredibly limited stock of safe, sanitary, good quality rentals for those on fixed incomes and/or low-wage earners. Further public housing demolition isn't on the city's nor HUD's agenda at the moment, especially in this economy.
In terms of Madison Park, let's just say I have a hunch there will be some new changes over the next several years. The racial dynamics between surrounding neighborhoods, compounded by redlining, blockbusting, disinvestment and the aftereffects of urban renewal, are to blame.
Why should folks be entitled to " good quality housing" if they can't afford it? Why should taxpayers subsidize bad choices that exasperate the cost to society in the form of increased crime, poor educational attainment etc.
No what is to blame is a community that tolerates high levels of anti-social behavior and a progressive community that contorts all reason to defend, excuse and shift blame where it should be the people themselves.
It seems that McCulloh Homes is the problem. I wonder if the city would consider renting to a different "type" of tenant or turning the McCulloh Homes into coops? I know in NYC they have turned projects into coops which actually worked out well. They even offered a few apartments (at discount) to the working tenants who occupied the building.
The idea is that people will take care of what they own or have invested in.
Why should folks be entitled to " good quality housing" if they can't afford it? Why should taxpayers subsidize bad choices that exasperate the cost to society in the form of increased crime, poor educational attainment etc.
No what is to blame is a community that tolerates high levels of anti-social behavior and a progressive community that contorts all reason to defend, excuse and shift blame where it should be the people themselves.
Why? I honestly do not feel that any human being, especially children, should be subject to living in conditions akin to the Jacob Riis-era, regardless of the situation. Residents in subsidized housing pay rent, a defined percentage of their income. Most cheap unassisted rental properties, in West Baltimore for instance, are rife with housing code violations, that are unfit for youth, and, uninhabitable. The private market in this city is grossly unregulated. I've heard countless stories of ceilings caving in, sewage overflow, mold, severe mice and rat infestation in low-income private rental markets. There's incredible risk and for those unable to work, on fixed incomes, or, trying to get ahead, I don't feel they should suffer. But, that's my level of empathy kicking in, you may feel differently. To each his own.
You're making a sweeping generalization with the phrase 'bad choices.' There are many at McCulloh Homes that I've personally worked with, who are elderly, (towers are for seniors), disabled, and/or are using public housing to eventually get to a better place. Further, there is a degree of collective efficacy at the property, along with a functional Tenant Council, who are involved in the community--the few bad apples should not spoil the bunch.
Further, if blame were to be placed, I think taking a look at the history of Baltimore and how minorities were treated in this city would be a good place to start. Intergenerational poverty is a difficult cycle to break.
The private market in this city is grossly unregulated.
Yearly inspections are required on multifamily properties and lead inspections are required for all new long term tenants. This is extreme regulation is my opinion and over steps what the government should be doing. People should be able to decide if they want to live in an apartment and that's it. The government does not need to get involved. They don't inspect the conditions of the house you buy so the same should apply for an apartment you rent. Over regulation just burdens society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09
honestly do not feel that any human being, especially children, should be subject to living in conditions akin to the Jacob Riis-era, regardless of the situation.
People that can't support themselves should not be able to have kids and live in the conditions that they caused to themselves if that's what they want or they should do something about it (get a job or education but that's too difficult I guess when you get free hand outs). I understand having a system to help people in bad situations but the current system does not do that. It gives them shelter and food for being a burden on society from what I see. This is draining society of prosperity. Make them work for their housing and food or starve. Yeah, it's tough but that's life unfortunately. Medical conditions of course would be make the situation different but that would be based on the medical condition and treatment. I don't think this will happen so eventually I see society collapsing because of the weight of this cost of supporting all these people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09
TFurther, if blame were to be placed, I think taking a look at the history of Baltimore and how minorities were treated in this city would be a good place to start. Intergenerational poverty is a difficult cycle to break.
Looking in the past for too long will keep everything in the past. Enough time has past that people need to start to look at themselves instead of what happened to their grand parents or great grand parents. America does have a ****ty history of what minorities went through and I wish it didn't happen. It did though and things have changed. They are not perfect and never will be but that doesn't mean excuses should continuously be made.
Yearly inspections are required on multifamily properties and lead inspections are required for all new long term tenants. This is extreme regulation is my opinion and over steps what the government should be doing. People should be able to decide if they want to live in an apartment and that's it. The government does not need to get involved. They don't inspect the conditions of the house you buy so the same should apply for an apartment you rent. Over regulation just burdens society.
The private rental market (i.e., unsubsidized private row homes), is highly unregulated in comparison to other cities with stricter rules to protect renters (regardless of income). Visit Baltimore Slumlord Watch. Talk to anyone at Code Enforcement. Look into the number of lead-based paint violations in the city (i.e, wonderful example). Regulation is there to ensure safety and deter deferral of proper maintenance and hazardous disrepair. When I lived in Canton several years back, (in a high end rental), the heat went out in the apartment during single digit degree temperatures. His response, "deal with it," and left the heater inoperable for days. A quick call to Code Enforcement (to verify laws in these situations) provided the legal impetus for him to get his act together. Without that protection, I would have froze in a 30 degree apartment.
A private home that rents to a Section 8 hard-voucher tenant is inspected on an annual basis. These properties consistently fail inspections for severe issues, and, when they fail and issues are not addressed, families are forced to involuntarily relocate, including children often throughout the school year. OIG has had a field day with S8 audits in cities across the country, including Baltimore. If you left it solely up to private market forces, especially in lower-income neighborhoods, bottom line, there would be a lot more injury and death.
Public housing, as well as multifamily properties that are privately owned but receive unit-based subsidies from the government (i.e., Madison Park North), are no way near inspected every year. The inspection standard is based upon most recent inspection score. Properties that score 90+ are required to be inspected every 3 years, 80 range every two years, 70 - 60 every year, below 60 (failing) multiple times per year. Pull the HUD multifamily inspection database if you want to see how closely that standard is adhered to--it's not. The inspection system as it stands has its flaws as well--Madison Park North recently passed. I rest my case.
Lastly, when purchasing your own home, certain inspections are required by mortgage lenders or government mandate, under the same principle.
Regulation that is one-time comprehensive, streamlined, systematic, and in turn effective makes sense for all parties involved, including the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboltonman
People that can't support themselves should not be able to have kids and live in the conditions that they caused to themselves if that's what they want or they should do something about it (get a job or education but that's too difficult I guess when you get free hand outs). I understand having a system to help people in bad situations but the current system does not do that. It gives them shelter and food for being a burden on society from what I see. This is draining society of prosperity. Make them work for their housing and food or starve. Yeah, it's tough but that's life unfortunately. Medical conditions of course would be make the situation different but that would be based on the medical condition and treatment. I don't think this will happen so eventually I see society collapsing because of the weight of this cost of supporting all these people.
Not going to have a debate about this as you're entitled to your own opinion. However, do note that an overwhelming amount of individuals that receive subsidies (housing, food stamps, etc.) are working or must be actively looking for a job/involved in training, (often a requirement) excluding children, the elderly, and the disabled. Do some research on figures, I've pulled them in other posts from way back when.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboltonman
Looking in the past for too long will keep everything in the past. Enough time has past that people need to start to look at themselves instead of what happened to their grand parents or great grand parents. America does have a ****ty history of what minorities went through and I wish it didn't happen. It did though and things have changed. They are not perfect and never will be but that doesn't mean excuses should continuously be made.
I'll repeat, intergenerational poverty is a hard cycle to break, especially in a city like Baltimore, for a variety of reasons. This is a wonderful report by a colleague that may provide some insight into Baltimore's legacy of residential and racial segregation, and, how it's impacted the dynamics of the city today.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
