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Old 03-04-2013, 06:17 AM
 
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How does that work?? Explain?!
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:54 AM
Status: "On The Lookout" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,401 posts, read 61,798,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_heights77 View Post
How does that work?? Explain?!
Effective ratio's.

Every city, even the world class, will have a portion of the low's of the world.
The low skilled, the low motivated, the low advancing, the low paid.

What will set the successful societies apart from the floundering...
is what portion of their whole is made up of the low's.

The first 10% is almost inevitable. The second 10% is manageable.
Beyond that 20% level however... is what will eventually doom them.

hth
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:59 AM
 
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Not sure what you are getting at, but I'll show you "World Class Cities" and their similar problems with poverty.

Baltimore below poverty rate, 22.4%, 138,766 citizens below poverty rate

NYC below poverty rate, 19.4%, 1,599,512 citizens below the poverty rate

Washington DC poverty rate, 18.2%, 115,083 citizens below the poverty rate.

With that said, NYC, the most world class city in the USA, has a lower percentage but more than 10xs as many poor people as we do. Since I know you are celebrating DC, they have 23,000 less poor people than we do... not a huge amount.

Baltimore is making a lot of moves in the right direction and still suffers from many ills that most other cities do. Another thing to keep in mind with Baltimore is we have some of the smallest city lines in the country. We are the 118th biggest city by square mileage, but the 24th biggest population. Imagine if you drew the lines similar to many other cities to included places like Catonsville, Ellicot City, Towson, Lutherville, Middle River and so on. They would come up much lower in poverty rates, murder rates and so on, and probably be almost double the population.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:42 AM
Status: "On The Lookout" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,401 posts, read 61,798,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLynch10 View Post
Not sure what you are getting at...

Baltimore below poverty rate, 22.4%, 138,766 citizens below poverty rate
NYC below poverty rate, 19.4%, 1,599,512 citizens below the poverty rate
Washington DC poverty rate, 18.2%, 115,083 citizens below the poverty rate.
Look beyond "poverty rate" and mostly the far too low official definition of it.

I prefer the term self sufficiency and the idea it represents:
The ability to actually pay our own way without any assistance
which is more than twice the official poverty level

Rodricks did an article in August on the distinction. LINK
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:10 AM
 
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Yeah, it's pretty sad how many people aren't completely independent in this country. It also drives me nuts when you see people using an independence card that have a much nicer car than I, or when nice cars are parked in front of public housing.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:28 AM
Status: "On The Lookout" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLynch10 View Post
Yeah, it's pretty sad how many people aren't completely independent in this country.
Which (in large part) gets us back to the un (and under) employment situation.

For a variety of mostly good reasons we just don't have enough of the no/low skill jobs that we once did.
We also don't have enough of the low/moderate skill jobs.
Even for those who actually would want one we don't have enough.

But it's still not a lack of available jobs problem... it's a surplus of people problem.

A few odd exceptions aside...
we have far more people available than jobs that actually need doing.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLynch10 View Post
Yeah, it's pretty sad how many people aren't completely independent in this country. It also drives me nuts when you see people using an independence card that have a much nicer car than I, or when nice cars are parked in front of public housing.
when people were "more independent" the country was worse off
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:10 PM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,539,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Which (in large part) gets us back to the un (and under) employment situation.

For a variety of mostly good reasons we just don't have enough of the no/low skill jobs that we once did.
We also don't have enough of the low/moderate skill jobs.
Even for those who actually would want one we don't have enough.

But it's still not a lack of available jobs problem... it's a surplus of people problem.

A few odd exceptions aside...
we have far more people available than jobs that actually need doing.
This is a real problem, and it may well get worse. John Kenneth Galbraith foresaw this in his 1970's-era book "The Affluent Society," where he talked about the impact of mechanization and computerization, and the low marginal utility of individual labor. We have recently seen this compounded by offshoring and immigration. The next step is for it to move further up the food chain as the result of expert systems and other forms of sophisticated electronics. Galbraith points out that we need to rethink our economic system so as to separate personal survival from employment and labor.

But the real irony of this thread is that Baltimore was once a truly world-class city, even within my lifetime
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:53 PM
 
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It worked for DC.

Remember, twenty years ago, DC was actually somewhat worse than Baltimore in some respects. DC's murder rate was higher than Baltimore in the early 90's. DC was averaging 500 murders a year at one point in the late 80's and early 90's while Baltimore has never broken 400 homicides and DC has always been slightly smaller than Baltimore in population. Last year was the first year DC recorded under one hundred homicides since the 60's. That is an incredible feat. In the past ten to twenty years, DC has dramatically transformed from being a decaying bombed-out ghetto city and the "murder capital" of the country to becoming the most educated big city in America with the highest median incomes.

What DC did was grow the federal government. Tens of thousands of high paid federal government jobs were added at taxpayer expense. The number one prerequisite to obtaining a federal job is a college degree. Because of this, college-educated professionals from all over the country relocated to DC all while the tens of thousands of "low to no class" ghetto residents of DC were pushed out of the District into neighboring PG County. DC is now a city that is becoming to be dominated by yuppie transplants. So much so that the universal catch-phrase for DC has become "What do you do?" rather than "I got that ready rock out" like it was in the early 90's. Ghetto areas in DC that were once no-go zones (i.e. Columbia Heights, Georgia Ave and even Trinidad) are now quickly gentrifying places where white people jog and walk their dogs and once derelict strips full of shuttered abandoned businesses where dope peddlers sold their goods and beat up junkies (i.e. H Street NE) are becoming "hip" places where yuppies drink at newly opened pretentious bars and such.

http://gawker.com/5822201/whites-win...ations-capital

Sadly, DC's relatively newfound status as a world class affluent town is based on government corruption, adding billions to even trillions of dollars to the national debt in the widening of an unfoundedly wealthy soulless, status-obsessed, condescending snooty DC area feudal aristocracy and a growing nouveau serfdom of a huge percentage of Americans living outside of the Capitol beltway.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/1...in-the-nation/

Baltimore is like Detroit. Manufacturing was shutdown stateside permanently or sailed off and rebuilt as slave labor factories in Asia. A new legitimate industry (not involving illegal drugs) needs to be centered in Baltimore in order for the city to flourish. The tech boom caused the South Bay and San Francisco to boom. Baltimore is currently a hard sale as a hot spot for a new growing industry because even downtown can be forbidding to sheltered pasty camera-toting tourists who have never ever experienced a slice of the widespread proudly ignorant, threatening, sometimes downright dangerous, socially disorganized ghetto culture that is the norm in Baltimore.

Also, much of Baltimore is extremely run-down and neglected. There are tens of thousands of abandoned rowhomes and buildings in Baltimore. Oakland, California could be saved quicker than B-More because Oakland has much less severe blight than "Charm City". Many houses in Oakland are rather nice multiple story Victorian homes or bungalows with palm trees in the yard and built in garages. Also, Oakland is rapidly losing much of its ghetto black population at an alarming rate as latinos, Asians and whites come to dominate "The Town" which was historically a Baltimore of the West.

The only option would be to bulldoze down much of Baltimore and start from scratch. Richer and upper middle class folks from the vanilla suburbs seem to not want to move to the city en masse. Rich and upper middle class folks might work downtown, go to bars and play or even buy drugs in the city, but most of them sure as hell wouldn't live in Baltimore. Until this happens, Baltimore will stay the way it is. The reality is that gentrification is causing big cities to "get better". There is no reason to gentrify Baltimore, nor is there for Detroit or New Orleans.

Last edited by LunaticVillage; 03-04-2013 at 11:35 PM..
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:19 AM
 
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Good statistical information KLynch, but I'm not really speaking to numbers right now. What I'm ultimately referring to is the social, psychological and cultural dynamics of the native population of this town. New York City, for what it's worth, whether we like it or not...HAS BEEN A WORLD CLASS CITY FOR A VERY LONG TIME!! All the world's people can be found in that megalopolis. Currently, Baltimore can't claim such a status.

Poverty doesn't always constitute low-level thinking. It's predicated on many things, and one can be described as what you've been exposed to. You don't have to have a lot of money to be intelligent, civilized and cultured. This "Consciousness of Poverty & Ignorance" is what I'm talking about!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by KLynch10 View Post
Not sure what you are getting at, but I'll show you "World Class Cities" and their similar problems with poverty.

Baltimore below poverty rate, 22.4%, 138,766 citizens below poverty rate

NYC below poverty rate, 19.4%, 1,599,512 citizens below the poverty rate

Washington DC poverty rate, 18.2%, 115,083 citizens below the poverty rate.

With that said, NYC, the most world class city in the USA, has a lower percentage but more than 10xs as many poor people as we do. Since I know you are celebrating DC, they have 23,000 less poor people than we do... not a huge amount.

Baltimore is making a lot of moves in the right direction and still suffers from many ills that most other cities do. Another thing to keep in mind with Baltimore is we have some of the smallest city lines in the country. We are the 118th biggest city by square mileage, but the 24th biggest population. Imagine if you drew the lines similar to many other cities to included places like Catonsville, Ellicot City, Towson, Lutherville, Middle River and so on. They would come up much lower in poverty rates, murder rates and so on, and probably be almost double the population.
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