How would you differentiate Baltimore people from Philadelphia people? (Annapolis: house, restaurant)

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

If Puerto Ricans didn't leave NYC to go to Philly it wouldn't be a true northeastern city either, right? I mean, that's where they originally came from anyway.

I was backing you up. Where did it imply that Philly needs Puerto Ricans to be Northeastern when it already is?

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by BMoreJuice

That's true! But I have been a walking pedestrian once or twice. And sometimes the cars like to speed around me in the middle of the street

There was also a thread on here discussing the behavior of providing extra space between cars at stoplights Lol

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by tcave360

I was backing you up. Where did it imply that Philly needs Puerto Ricans to be Northeastern when it already is?

I know that you were. I wasn't talking about you.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by tcave360

I didn't even know having a large Puerto Rican/Dominican population was purely a Northeastern phenomenon.....After all, its not like Atlanta, Miami (All of Florida really), New Orleans, Houston, etc. have a presence of immigrants from the PR and DR anyways...............

I didn't know having density, transit and liberal transplants was a Northeastern phenomenon. But I have a couple of questions for you nonetheless:

1. If density, rowhouses and a European-style urban layout are defining features of Northeastern cities, then how were Baltimore and DC ever southern cities in the first place? Why weren't they northern cities, say, in 1934 (the year Maryland joined the Southern Association of Governors) or 1947 (the year Maryland joined the Southern Legislative Conference)? But I guess population shifts have changed things, which brings me to my second question...

2. If a plurality of the people moving to the Maryland suburbs are from the South, then how is it that it's become "northern?" Wouldn't you at the very least need a majority of Northeasterners to reach that conclusion?

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

I didn't know having density, transit and liberal transplants was a Northeastern phenomenon. But I have a couple of questions for you nonetheless:

1. If density, rowhouses and a European-style urban layout are defining features of Northeastern cities, then how were Baltimore and DC ever southern cities in the first place? Why weren't they northern cities, say, in 1934 (the year Maryland joined the Southern Association of Governors) or 1947 (the year Maryland joined the Southern Legislative Conference)? But I guess population shifts have changed things, which brings me to my second question...

2. If a plurality of the people moving to the Maryland suburbs are from the South, then how is it that it's become "northern?" Wouldn't you at the very least need a majority of Northeasterners to reach that conclusion?

The transplants from the South most likely assimilated into Baltimore and DC cultures, which was never truly Southern to begin with. Do you honestly believe Baltimore has more in common with cities like Charlotte and Memphis than it does with Philadelphia?

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

The transplants from the South most likely assimilated into Baltimore and DC cultures, which was never truly Southern to begin with.

Baltimore was a southern city when the transplants arrived there. I mean, that's beyond dispute (or at least so I believed, but you can never really doubt the power of delusion and historical revisionism). But the popular thinking around these parts is that transplants from the Northeast filled DC and Baltimore up with "Yankee" culture, thereby turning them into "Yankee" cities.

The only problem with that theory, as I pointed out already, is that the plurality of the transplants to these metro areas came and are coming from the South (we already calculated these numbers in excruciating detail in the General U.S. forum). So if that's the case, isn't the influence from the South actually stronger than the influence from the North? If the argument for "northerness" is based on domestic migration, then the reality is that Maryland has become more southern than northern in the last 30 years or so since the bulk of the migration is from that part of the country.

But "southerners are not bringing culture with them!" you might say (this is actually what someone said in the DC forum). I personally don't really understand what that means. It's like people expect southerners to move to the region barefoot and with missing teeth and southern drawls ("Hey, y'aaaaawl!"). That's a rather bigoted view, no? Some southerners may have easily detectable accents. But a lot of southerners--particularly those who are well-educated (which tends to be the case with domestic migrants moving to the area)--do not. For the most part, they are not easily distinguishable from the average transplant from Ohio or Wisconsin. So it's not so much that the area is becoming more "northern" as it is that most of America is homogenizing.

That's how I see it anyway. I don't see how 75-80% of transplants being from somewhere outside of the Northeast (with the plurality from the South) make an area feel more northern. What type of "northern" culture is someone from Tennessee, Southern Virginia, Florida, California or Texas bringing to the table? The opposite of "southern," in my mind, is not necessarily "northern." Saying that any city is "northern" due to a small minority of people is like saying Barbados is a "white" island due to the small minority of British expats that have moved there over the years.

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

Do you honestly believe Baltimore has more in common with cities like Charlotte and Memphis than it does with Philadelphia?

I really hate this line of argument. Baltimore does not have to be similar to every southern city. But it is similar to some. 50 years ago, Baltimore was a lot more similar to Richmond or Norfolk, which are still southern cities today, but also decidedly less southern today than they were 50 years ago. Nearly all big southern metros--Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, etc--are becoming "less southern" as immigrants from Central America and Asia flood their MSAs along with domestic migrants from all over the country seeking a lower COL and job opportunities. But I wouldn't say they're necessarily becoming more "northern" because of these demographic changes.

[BajanYankee]

This post should be turned into a sticky. Every time someone wants to argue up and down the wall about DC/Baltimore/Maryland's regional identity (as if the 77,549 threads aren't evidence enough that they don't truly belong in either region), they will first be implored to review this post before further comment.

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

Note the direction of the cannons on Federal Hill: Pointed toward the city, not the harbor. In other words, don't you get any ideas you southern sympathizers! Cessation was discussed in the legislature. The union arrested sympathizers in Baltimore, which was placed under martial law. There's this line in our state song: "Huzza! she spurns the Northern scum!"

The point is that this is an old question. Back then Baltimore did not fit in a congruous manner with the rest of the north and I still don't believe that it does. Go up to Boston, they all think we're southerners, too.

Baltimore just doesn't fit in the southern or northern debate and it never has. This is, however, the northernmost city where small talk and pleasant greetings when passing someone in the street is acceptable. Once you get to Phila. it's duck you head and walk quickly.

Not northern, not southern, just Baltimore.

And that's how you differentiate Philly from Baltimore (that's the topic of the thread after all). Nothing more really needs to be said...

[PurpleHaze1100]

Why does everybody like to say Baltimore is urban but has a SMALL TOWN feel? Baltimore isn't SMALL!! Baltimore is not Annapolis or Richmond Or Pittsburgh. Believe it or not Baltimore is the largest INDEPENDENT city in the United States. It has 92 square miles compared to D.C.'s 62 square miles or Boston's 90 sq. miles. Saying Baltimore's small is like saying Atlanta is small. Baltimore is a city full of neighborhoods. Sure its population isn't 1 million plus, but that doesn't mean the city is small. Are you kidding me? I mean 620,000 people is ALOT of people for a Maryland city. After all its the LARGEST CITY in the state, and its tallest building "Transamerica tower" is the TALLEST from Richmond to Philly. So everybody can stop making Baltimore seem like its a town. It is indeed an urban major city with its own METROPOLITAN AREA, and has its own transportation system linking its suburbs. Baltimore is its own place. Another thing I have a problem with is people from DC thinking Baltimore is a huge suburb of DC. Just because your transplants want to move to our city because they cant afford your yuppified neighborhoods does not make us a suburb. We have our own downtown we have our own suburbs and for decades we had a larger population than dc. Up until 2012 dc finally reached to 600,000. So were about even now population wise but still to say Baltimore is suburb of dc is irrelevant. Baltimore has its own culture and was even founded before dc.




AND TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE BALTIMORE, D.C. AND PHILLY FROM SATELLITE. BALTIMORE IS JUST AS COMPARABLE TO THESE 2 NEIGHBORING CITIES SO THERE YA GO

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=11ce...5#.UttKZEAo5EY

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

I know that you were. I wasn't talking about you.

Whoops, my mistake.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by bmoreboy25

Why does everybody like to say Baltimore is urban but has a SMALL TOWN feel? Baltimore isn't SMALL!! Baltimore is not Annapolis or Richmond Or Pittsburgh. Believe it or not Baltimore is the largest INDEPENDENT city in the United States. It has 92 square miles compared to D.C.'s 62 square miles or Boston's 90 sq. miles. Saying Baltimore's small is like saying Atlanta is small. Baltimore is a city full of neighborhoods. Sure its population isn't 1 million plus, but that doesn't mean the city is small. Are you kidding me? I mean 620,000 people is ALOT of people for a Maryland city. After all its the LARGEST CITY in the state, and its tallest building "Transamerica tower" is the TALLEST from Richmond to Philly. So everybody can stop making Baltimore seem like its a town. It is indeed an urban major city with its own METROPOLITAN AREA, and has its own transportation system linking its suburbs. Baltimore is its own place. Another thing I have a problem with is people from DC thinking Baltimore is a huge suburb of DC. Just because your transplants want to move to our city because they cant afford your yuppified neighborhoods does not make us a suburb. We have our own downtown we have our own suburbs and for decades we had a larger population than dc. Up until 2012 dc finally reached to 600,000. So were about even now population wise but still to say Baltimore is suburb of dc is irrelevant. Baltimore has its own culture and was even founded before dc.




AND TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE BALTIMORE, D.C. AND PHILLY FROM SATELLITE. BALTIMORE IS JUST AS COMPARABLE TO THESE 2 NEIGHBORING CITIES SO THERE YA GO

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Don't beat yourself up so much, people say the same thing about Philly