Baltimore vs. Portland, OR (Towson: fit in, 2009, apartments)

[GucciLittlePiggie]

(I'm sure you guys get annoying posts like this a lot, but I need some help. Sorry!)

So I live about 45 min outside Boston, I'm 25, and engaged. My fiancee and I are looking to move in spring 2009. I work in biotech, and she's almost done with an MBA, hoping for marketing or HR jobs. The main reasons for moving are the crappy weather here from late October --> early May, the fact that a 600k house is 1200 sq ft with no yard, and just for something different. Maybe more outdoor opportunities, less crowded (MA isn't so big, you see...), etc. Anyways, we had been focused on Portland, OR for awhile now. They seem to have low housing costs, compared to here, and a lot of nature stuff, good microbrews, wine, local food, etc. We're both liberal, but mainstream, and Portland seems good for that if you don't mind the freaks

Anyways, the obvious problems I see presented are the fact that it rains there a lot Nov-April, and this is preferable to dirty snowpiles, but might get depressing, compared to clear winter days of fresh snow. Also, I guess the job market is quite bad there. We're worried we're going to wind up working at a bookstore or something, stuck in gloomy weather. How does Baltimore fit in to this? Is it reasonable for 2 college-educated late-20-somethings to make a combined 90k there? Or enough to buy a normal house? What is the shopping like (malls, little shops, etc)? What are the people like, friendly, conservative, liberal, diverse, straight-laced, weirdos, dressy, casual?? What kind of cars do people drive? Are there cool lofts or apartments downtown? Do people in my demographic typically live in suburbs, downtown, or certain sections? Are there earthquakes? Is the weather nice? I'd really love some thoughts on the good, the bad, and any suggestions....on Baltimore, other cities in MD, Portland, other places, whatever.

Sorry this was so long and rambling. Thanks very much for anyone who responds!

[carolott]

Is it reasonable for 2 college-educated late-20-somethings to make a combined 90k there?

Yes.

Or enough to buy a normal house?

I guess so.

What is the shopping like (malls, little shops, etc)?

Um...we have malls and small shops, too.

What are the people like, friendly, conservative, liberal, diverse, straight-laced, weirdos, dressy, casual??

I'd guess we're the same as people in Boston.

What kind of cars do people drive?

Huh? We drive covered wagons here.

Are there cool lofts or apartments downtown?

Yes.

Do people in my demographic typically live in suburbs, downtown, or certain sections?

Yes. People in their twenties live at one end of town, because we like to shove all of our elderly people to the bad parts of the city. Keeps 'em on their toes. Once a week, the mayor drives over to make sure they're all still alive.

Are there earthquakes?

No, just killer locusts.

Is the weather nice?

It changes by the hour.

[barante]

carolott -- So succinct, so to the point. I'm envious.

[emsgoof]

Are there earthquakes?

Yes, occasionally, but they're rare, and often only felt in about a 2-3 sq mile area. I think they had one this past year, and before that it had been about 10-15 years or so. The biggest was maybe a 1.2 or so? (It was more of a big bang rather than anything we could feel, and we were living only about 500 yards from where they figured the "epicenter" was)

[Streetchie]

I've lived in both cities and would strongly recommend that you focus on Portland.

[jonjj]

I love both cities but I call Baltimore home. I also lived in Boston for three years. Baltimore and Boston are similar but Baltimore has a higher crime rate. There are plenty of neighborhoods in the city where young professionals live. And along with that is the lifestyle they like. Baltimore's weather is very similar to Bostons: hot, humid summers with damp winters. We get less snow than Boston but a northeaster can affect us also.
I am not to familiar with Portland having only been there two or three times. I love their summers out there but I have never been out there in the winter. Portland is cleaner than Baltimore and has less crime.
Not sure if this helps or not, just my two cents. I will add that I do have a couple of friends here from Boston that really like it, one in Federal HIll and the other in Fells Point. But I am sure there are Bostonians living in Portland who love it there too.

[Tallybalt]

If you are really concerned about the weather, let me suggest add Denver to your list. Denver has wonderful weather most of the year, and while it does get hot in the summer, it's not humid. The winters are dry, very sunny, and any snowstorms quickly melts within a day or two. It may be 35 degrees outside in January, but the skies are a deep blue and you will feel the heat of the sun on the back of your neck (or the top of your head if you're bald!), and any cold spell is followed by a few days of mild 50s weather.

Denver has a large population of young 20s-30s. The city's cultural scene certainly can't measure up to Boston, or even Baltimore, but what it has is vibrant and growing. The people are also very outdoorsy, ranging from serious hikers and skiers who hit the mountains every week, to people who just like to rollerblade through the parks on Saturday mornings. A double income at 90K is certainly achievable in Denver (you may even make more), and housing is much more affordable than Boston (one odd fact, rents in Denver are cheaper than in Baltimore, but buying a house is slightly more expensive).

Portland is more similar to Denver than to Baltimore. Baltimore, despite the growing health/sciences sector, is still a town dominated by a blue-collar population. Both Portland and Denver are solidly white collar, professional cities (Colorado has one of the highest % of citizens with college degrees in the country). Crime is minimal in both Portland and Denver, and while Baltimore has plenty of safe neighborhoods, the city also has ghettos on a depth and scale that would be unimagineable to any resident of Portland/Denver.

[Streetchie]

The cost of living is cheaper in Baltimore, but Portland is just a much nicer city to live in. Crime is not such an issue there (20 murders vs. the 300+ that Baltimore usually sees) and the people are much more progessive. You shouldn't have a problem in either city finding jobs that will pay $90k combined. Good luck.

[Lumerian Feast]

It's really a matter of personal preference. Portland's a beautiful city, but a lot of people who have lived there get bored. Baltimore certainly has its ills...but you'd be surprised how many people similar to yourself wind up loving it. It has a ton of personality and quirkiness, there are a lot of cool things to do, and as far as the crime, you figure out how to avoid it. Basically, if you stay out of the ghetto, your safety level goes up a great deal, and the chances of you being affected by crime become the same as other big cities. People mention the 300+ murders/year, but they frequently fail to mention that literally 95% of these murders are gangster/drug dealers killing other gangster/drug dealers. Don't deal drugs, and you most likely won't get murdered. Otherwise, you'll find plenty of people who have lived in Baltimore for decades without a problem. And you'll find some people who have lived there for two weeks and gotten mugged. Like most cities.

As far as the people go: I would say Baltimoreans are either extremely nice or extremely nuts. Sometimes the same person is nice AND nuts. You will meet a lot of your neighbors, and the majority of them will be great. I've had strangers help dig me out of the snow, a favor I've returned, or just do something nice because it was there to be done. But, yes, I've also had total wack-jobs get in my face for reasons I never quite deciphered. But believe it or not, certain people come to appreciate this. I guess one thing you can say is that people in Baltimore are quite passionate and even emotional. They don't hide their emotions too well. This can be good and bad. But I'll take it over somewhere like Austin, where I currently (temporarily) live, where everything's "nice" but kind of sterile. But some people like sterile. Personal preference.

Baltimore's also a beautiful town in terms of architecture -- if you like old brick or stone buildings everywhere, it's a good place to be.

In terms of weather -- some winters are cold and snowy, others are just chilly and rainy. It's not nearly as tough a winter as NY or even Philly.

Shopping: no, HarborPlace is not representative. There are many small businesses and shops in Baltimore with cool offerings, especially in Federal Hill, Hampden and Fells Point. Malls...not my cup of tea, but there's the Galleria downtown, and you can drive to the suburbs fairly quickly. Towson Town Center is only 15 minutes away, Arundel Mills is only 15-25 minutes away (depending on what side of town you're coming from).

The other thing about Baltimore is that it's centrally located. You're 45 minutes from DC, 90 minutes from Philly, 3-4 hours from NYC, 8-9 hours from Boston & Toronto. You can be in the mountains in Western MD in two hours or at the beach in 3 hours. If you're the kind of person who likes day trips and get-away weekends, Baltimore definitely has that over Portland and Denver.

Yes, two college educated people can easily make 90K here. ONE college educated person can make 90K here. Especially in biotech and business.

Oh, one other thing: you're from Boston. If you're a Red Sox fan...move to Portland.

[carolott]

Yes, Baltimore is full of nuts. It's one of the things that attracted me to this city...hm. Not sure what that says about me, but I do love it here!