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Old 05-13-2015, 08:32 AM
 
38 posts, read 69,625 times
Reputation: 17

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You can't make an urban turn around when the politicians with the funds do not want it to happen unless they get something out of it. It's better to keep people down so they (politicians) can continue to feed you crumbs.

I remember the "block busters" (realtors) that would move 1 black family into a white neighborhood, knowing the for sale signs would start popping up. The people that moved in could not afford the house (usually renters any how). I saw shutters torn off from the houses within a year. Doors off their hinges, drinking on the street. This was in middle class blue collar working white neighborhoods. Police eventually would consider these areas "gray areas" (a friend was a cop) they would not enter these areas without at least 2 patrol cars. This happen within a 2-3 year span. And what I'm referring to is far removed from the riot area.

The folks that rioted are pain racists. They despise whites or other any other race. They do not respect any authority. It's been going on for years and that is the way the leaders of the city want it to be no matter what they say otherwise. Actions speak louder then words. If the leaders wanted to help these folks they have had 50 plus years to do so.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:23 AM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,191,132 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by picardlx View Post
Although no doubt important, I think the problem goes beyond just political corruption and maintaining a 'services' industry related to 'helping' poor people.

Giving a failed neighborhood an injection of cash, just won't work because the effects aren't sustainable without further injections.

If there were a program that would turn every boarded-up row home into good respectable property, the residents won't have the income to maintain the homes and eventually they will go into disrepair.

If the government subsidized the construction of jobs sites that brought good paying jobs right in the center of a failed neighborhood and yet if those jobs required skills and education that many lack, then that wouldn't benefit local residents either.

If city services were increased to keep the area litter free and police patrols kept the area relatively safe, the increased cost wouldn't be met with increased revenue from the existing residents -- if they don't have a good source of income.

Government can certainly provide the kindling and match, but the heavy logs of stable families (including single parent families), sense of community, and self-sustaining private enterprise are the foundations required to keep the fire burning after its been lit.
To further the analogy, the efforts years ago in Sandtown were like trying to sustain a fire on a raft in the middle of a pond. With water all around, the chance of long term success is nil.

The only answer is to gradually fill the pond. This is the kind of hard work that political opportunists run away from - but there is no substitute. By filling the pond I mean giving the population living in failing neighborhoods the education, skills, job opportunities, drug treatment, mentoring, incentives, etc., etc. etc. that are needed in order to build a productive workforce. Anything else is window dressing. This kind of effort would be long term, moderately expensive, and have a high demand for accountability from those in charge. To be perfectly honest, I don't think our leaders are up to the challenge.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:53 AM
 
6,885 posts, read 10,446,967 times
Reputation: 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwduvall View Post
To further the analogy, the efforts years ago in Sandtown were like trying to sustain a fire on a raft in the middle of a pond. With water all around, the chance of long term success is nil.

The only answer is to gradually fill the pond. This is the kind of hard work that political opportunists run away from - but there is no substitute. By filling the pond I mean giving the population living in failing neighborhoods the education, skills, job opportunities, drug treatment, mentoring, incentives, etc., etc. etc. that are needed in order to build a productive workforce. Anything else is window dressing. This kind of effort would be long term, moderately expensive, and have a high demand for accountability from those in charge. To be perfectly honest, I don't think our leaders are up to the challenge.

You can cross one street.. and the price of a home can drop by $100k or more.. Simply look at Bolton Hill's proximity to Madison Park...or even Pennsy @North... Its amazing how close together some of these areas are but a whole world apart. Event Nick and Marilyn Mosby live with walking distance of the hardest hit areas of the riots.....It is sad.. the fact that the attractive co op on North Fulton is an oasis in the middle of a desert of blight... If I were the City I would be focusing more on places like Madison Park, Res Hill, Pennsy Ave.. Orleans over in the Eastside to attempt to improve these "transitional" areas and make them ready for both middle and lower income residents.. You actually have an opportunity to do that in those areas.. Parachuting into the middle of Sandtown or Harlem park and putting up a new development and wonder what happened to it five years later is just a waste of money..which is likely what happened to some of the money in question from the Feds....

People laughed at Detriot as it tried to relocate one or two residents that were living in an area where there wasnt an occupied home for a ten square block area. Relocating them to a populated part of the City not only likely saved them but allowed the City to close off these no mans lands until the can figure out what to do with them. I remember seeing a photo of a weathered house standing by itself on a lonely block with one street light and a garbage can on the curb.. The article was grousing about how much it cost the City to service that one house because there wasnt one around for several blocks.. The street light outside the home was the only streetlight ON in the entire area as well. Eventually the City forced the owner to move but only after a fight....

.Personally, I can understand why someone wouldnt want to leave their home.. But if I am the ONLY house in the middle of a sea of vacant lots in the middle of a city that isnt necessarily safe.. It wouldnt take the City to force me to move.. the threat of a home invasion and no one being around to hear you scream.. would be enough..
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:36 AM
 
858 posts, read 1,058,957 times
Reputation: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
You can cross one street.. and the price of a home can drop by $100k or more.. Simply look at Bolton Hill's proximity to Madison Park...or even Pennsy @North... Its amazing how close together some of these areas are but a whole world apart. Event Nick and Marilyn Mosby live with walking distance of the hardest hit areas of the riots.....It is sad.. the fact that the attractive co op on North Fulton is an oasis in the middle of a desert of blight... If I were the City I would be focusing more on places like Madison Park, Res Hill, Pennsy Ave.. Orleans over in the Eastside to attempt to improve these "transitional" areas and make them ready for both middle and lower income residents.. You actually have an opportunity to do that in those areas.. Parachuting into the middle of Sandtown or Harlem park and putting up a new development and wonder what happened to it five years later is just a waste of money..which is likely what happened to some of the money in question from the Feds....

People laughed at Detriot as it tried to relocate one or two residents that were living in an area where there wasnt an occupied home for a ten square block area. Relocating them to a populated part of the City not only likely saved them but allowed the City to close off these no mans lands until the can figure out what to do with them. I remember seeing a photo of a weathered house standing by itself on a lonely block with one street light and a garbage can on the curb.. The article was grousing about how much it cost the City to service that one house because there wasnt one around for several blocks.. The street light outside the home was the only streetlight ON in the entire area as well. Eventually the City forced the owner to move but only after a fight....

.Personally, I can understand why someone wouldnt want to leave their home.. But if I am the ONLY house in the middle of a sea of vacant lots in the middle of a city that isnt necessarily safe.. It wouldnt take the City to force me to move.. the threat of a home invasion and no one being around to hear you scream.. would be enough..
I've never understood this either. There are such large swaths of blight. The city needs to do more to address this than just building something random in the middle of no-man's land. I like your suggestions of more spending in transitioning areas that need that one, good push. Reservoir Hill and Madison Park are great locations with potential, but they always feel like they're on the cusp.

My solution: Relocate homeowners (many of whom are older) and level the rest. Unfortunately, there are so many poor people who rent in the area and that's a big part of the problem. Does the city give people a few grand and say find a new place and good luck? How do they place these people as well? The real solution isn't very politically correct, but political correctness won't help Baltimore. Fact is, with a concentration of poor people in one area, it will never improve, no matter how much money is thrown at it.
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Old 05-13-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,704 posts, read 93,463,323 times
Reputation: 29741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Why, isn't the answer obvious? Because it's not Philadelphia!

I give it two weeks tops before you're shown the door. Less than that if you keep up your current pace.
Shucks -- missed by 3 days.
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Old 05-13-2015, 02:20 PM
 
4 posts, read 9,912 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_heights77 View Post
" Those negroes down at City Hall don't run or have the resources to affect any sort of sustainable outcomes for the mass majority of African American in this city.
Not sure what this means. With more money City Hall can construct robot cops and robot dads?
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:55 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,191,132 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by chariega View Post
I've never understood this either. There are such large swaths of blight. The city needs to do more to address this than just building something random in the middle of no-man's land. I like your suggestions of more spending in transitioning areas that need that one, good push. Reservoir Hill and Madison Park are great locations with potential, but they always feel like they're on the cusp.

My solution: Relocate homeowners (many of whom are older) and level the rest. Unfortunately, there are so many poor people who rent in the area and that's a big part of the problem. Does the city give people a few grand and say find a new place and good luck? How do they place these people as well? The real solution isn't very politically correct, but political correctness won't help Baltimore. Fact is, with a concentration of poor people in one area, it will never improve, no matter how much money is thrown at it.
As I understand it, the city is prohibited from relocating homeowners (and renters) on the cheap by a federal relocation law. I'm told that the minimum cost to relocate a homeowner is over $100K. Demolishing the houses themselves is actually the relatively cheap part of a demolition initiative.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,346 posts, read 1,684,260 times
Reputation: 739
Wanted to add that housing stock in Reservoir Hill has increased significantly. Re-modeled houses on Eutaw and Madison are easily going for 400k.
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:56 AM
 
5,289 posts, read 6,111,516 times
Reputation: 1135
"The folks that rioted are pain racists. They despise whites or other any other race..."

*Once again, I say that you don't know what you're talking about. That proverbial Bawlmer intellect will get it WRONG every time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wmrn43a View Post
You can't make an urban turn around when the politicians with the funds do not want it to happen unless they get something out of it. It's better to keep people down so they (politicians) can continue to feed you crumbs.

I remember the "block busters" (realtors) that would move 1 black family into a white neighborhood, knowing the for sale signs would start popping up. The people that moved in could not afford the house (usually renters any how). I saw shutters torn off from the houses within a year. Doors off their hinges, drinking on the street. This was in middle class blue collar working white neighborhoods. Police eventually would consider these areas "gray areas" (a friend was a cop) they would not enter these areas without at least 2 patrol cars. This happen within a 2-3 year span. And what I'm referring to is far removed from the riot area.

The folks that rioted are pain racists. They despise whites or other any other race. They do not respect any authority. It's been going on for years and that is the way the leaders of the city want it to be no matter what they say otherwise. Actions speak louder then words. If the leaders wanted to help these folks they have had 50 plus years to do so.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2015, 11:05 AM
 
858 posts, read 1,058,957 times
Reputation: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwduvall View Post
As I understand it, the city is prohibited from relocating homeowners (and renters) on the cheap by a federal relocation law. I'm told that the minimum cost to relocate a homeowner is over $100K. Demolishing the houses themselves is actually the relatively cheap part of a demolition initiative.
Wow I didn't know that. Is that 100k towards another property, or just 100K for a person to do what they wish? I can't imagine what a house between abandoned houses in blighted areas would go for, but 100K might seem high in many cases.
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