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Old 05-01-2015, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
5,743 posts, read 2,724,479 times
Reputation: 6486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrigginTodd View Post
is the fourth city philly? because if so... yea... philly is a dump.

I used to think that the NE Corridor was a mecca for new urbanist reborn cities. After spending a lot of time in all of them, I stepped back and realized that there's only really 3 cities worth a damn in the entire area, and they are DC, NYC & Boston.
Philly has its bad sections, but has large sections of the city that are beautiful. Center City, Univeristy City, and NW Philly are vibrant and very nice. Even though you can run into some thuggish behavior from some people, they seem to be better behaved socially than those in Baltimore (people tend to act civilized when they're downtown).

Baltimore is much smaller, and the bad areas border (are close to) downtown. Even downtown which is usually the nice part of the city, you'll see the few trouble makers behaving thuggishly downtown, like they don't have social skills.

I agree that NYC, Boston, and in recent history DC are definitely the class cities on the east coast. I don't think Philly is a dump though, and it's definitely a large step above Baltimore in terms of vibrancy.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 7,951,053 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
Philly has its bad sections, but has large sections of the city that are beautiful. Center City, Univeristy City, and NW Philly are vibrant and very nice. Even though you can run into some thuggish behavior from some people, they seem to be better behaved socially than those in Baltimore (people tend to act civilized when they're downtown).

Baltimore is much smaller, and the bad areas border (are close to) downtown. Even downtown which is usually the nice part of the city, you'll see the few trouble makers behaving thuggishly downtown, like they don't have social skills.

I agree that NYC, Boston, and in recent history DC are definitely the class cities on the east coast. I don't think Philly is a dump though, and it's definitely a large step above Baltimore in terms of vibrancy.
This.
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:23 PM
 
6,885 posts, read 10,450,012 times
Reputation: 2036
I will go deeper into what I believe is holding the City back.. it is intentionally being held back.. NO.. I dont mean by white people or even black people as a whole.. but by capitalism and corruption.

1) Poverty is an industry (prisons, jails, rehab programs, training programs, etc etc) all of these programs are run by not for profits and some for profits.. many of which pay hefty salaries to their Executive Directors (or Shareholders) and manage Federal, State or Local tax dollars/grants to operate. What is their goal? To reduced the number of addicts on the street? Really, that would put them out of business right? Now Im not saying that they are ALL bad or devious.. but all it takes is a few.....

2)Politics- "us versus them" Both Republicans and Democrats run for office and are put there/kept there by people either making decisions to support programs that benefit the poor or impoverished or trying to scale them back. Both groups have constituencies that support their efforts depending on where you are on the political spectrum.

3)Corruption or "Legal" Incentives- I dont need to explain the corruption or graft.. not just by some elected officials but some rank and file City Employees by not doing their job, taking bribes, taking liberties with their timesheets by adding overtime or using their position to hire friends and family...further weighing down and already broke city. That along with the millions of tax breaks given to developers (who may not even need them) to develop projects on the Gold Coast which politicians use as a Photo Op along with the normal campaign contribution while not providing similiar level of incentives in other areas.

4) Organized Crime (no not the Sopranos)- This goes far beyond some street level drug dealer selling dope on your stoop. The individuals that control the supply of drugs that flow in and out of the City laundry their money through "fronts" businesses that are funded by drugs and real estate (i.e vacants). If I am a drug supplier.. I would buy up every vacant I could find under the name of a shell corp or simply acquire it from the owner and let their name stay on the deed especially if it belonged to the children/relatives of a dead heir whose family walked away from it or took cash for it and live around the corner and agree to letting it stay in their name. Then I would just sit on it.. I would keep it boarded up or pay off City Code Inspectors to leave it alone I would use these vacants to stash drugs for street level dealers and allow addicts to flop in them. If you own the whole block and both sides of the street.. then who is going to call the Police? Why would the Police care? You see these signs around... "We Buy Houses" I wonder who puts those signs up.. since they are always on a vacant house or in a blighted neighborhood. When they get a hold of the house next to you and let it run down.. you will likely sell your house to them too just to get out...blight breed blight.....If you own blocks of vacants and you can create you own "Open Air Drug Market" and control everything from the distribution to the sale. Then these same operators contribute (via shell corp) to local and state level political campaigns. Whether the politicos know it or not... is debatable.

Note: I said this in another thread.. why didnt all of West Baltimore go up in flames? People could have easily burned blocks of vacants and had the fire department sending in back up from Annapolis to get it under control and looted way more stores than they did on the Westside. Only certain stores were hit and blocks of vacants didnt burn.... In the meantime try to find an open Drug Store anywhere near West Baltimore or even parts of Hampden or Remington which are near but not on the Westside.. They are CLOSED and Boarded Up for safety precaustions... Why?... Looters went for products and for the drugs.. so they stayed closed.. What products they dont use will be sold on street corners and bus stops and proceeds used to buy????? You guessed it more drugs to be smoked and consumed in vacants along abandoned streets owned by those I described above. Baltimore is Smalltimore... organized crime is part of the economy whether the politicos want to admit it or not...

Last edited by Woodlands; 05-01-2015 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
4,923 posts, read 5,428,303 times
Reputation: 4778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
I will go deeper into what I believe is holding the City back.. it is intentionally being held back.. NO.. I dont mean by white people or even black people as a whole.. but by capitalism and corruption.

1) Poverty is an industry (prisons, jails, rehab programs, training programs, etc etc) all of these programs are run by not for profits and some for profits.. many of which pay hefty salaries to their Executive Directors (or Shareholders) and manage Federal, State or Local tax dollars/grants to operate. What is their goal? To reduced the number of addicts on the street? Really, that would put them out of business right? Now Im not saying that they are ALL bad or devious.. but all it takes is a few.....

2)Politics- "us versus them" Both Republicans and Democrats run for office and are put there/kept there by people either making decisions to support programs that benefit the poor or impoverished or trying to scale them back. Both groups have constituencies that support their efforts depending on where you are on the political spectrum.

3)Corruption or "Legal" Incentives- I dont need to explain the corruption or graft.. not just by some elected officials but some rank and file City Employees by not doing their job, taking bribes, taking liberties with their timesheets by adding overtime or using their position to hire friends and family...further weighing down and already broke city. That along with the millions of tax breaks given to developers (who may not even need them) to develop projects on the Gold Coast which politicians use as a Photo Op along with the normal campaign contribution while not providing similiar level of incentives in other areas.

4) Organized Crime (no not the Sopranos)- This goes far beyond some street level drug dealer selling dope on your stoop. The individuals that control the supply of drugs that flow in and out of the City laundry their money through "fronts" businesses that are funded by drugs and real estate (i.e vacants). If I am a drug supplier.. I would buy up every vacant I could find under the name of a shell corp or simply acquire it from the owner and let their name stay on the deed especially if it belonged to a dead heir whose children walked away from it or took cash for it and live around the corner.. then I would just sit on it.. I would keep it boarded up or pay off City Code Inspectors to leave it alone I would use these vacants to stash drugs for street level dealers and allow addicts to flop in them. If you own the whole block and both sides of the street.. then who is going to call the Police? Why would the Police care? You see these signs around... "We Buy Houses" I wonder who puts those signs up.. since they are always on a vacant house or in a blighted neighborhood. When they get a hold of the house next to you and let it run down.. you will likely sell your house to them too just to get out...blight breed blight.....If you own blocks of vacants and you can create you own "Open Air Drug Market" and control everything to from the distribution to the sale. Then these same operators contribute (via shell corp) to local and state level political campaigns. Whether the politicos know it or not... is debatable.

Note: I said this in another thread.. why didnt all of West Baltimore go up in flames? People could have easily burned blocks of vacants and had the fire department sending in back up from Annapolis to get it under control and looted way more stores than they did on the Westside. Only certain stores were hit and blocks of vacants didnt burn.... In the meantime try to find an open Drug Store anywhere near West Baltimore or even parts of Hampden or Remington which are near but not on the Westside.. They are CLOSED and Boarded Up for safety precaustions... Why?... Looters went for products and for the drugs.. so they stayed closed.. What products they dont use will be sold on street corners and bus stops and proceeds used to buy????? You guessed it more drugs to be smoked and consumed in vacants along abandoned streets owned by those I described above. Baltimore is Smalltimore... organized crime is part of the economy whether the politicos want to admit it or not...
City Data rationale here: I blame it all on the Jews they own all the banks lol
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:43 PM
 
6,885 posts, read 10,450,012 times
Reputation: 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981 View Post
City Data rationale here: I blame it all on the Jews they own all the banks lol


Well... Banks hold the laundried money right... YOu have seen the movie Scareface...or Bad Boys II...
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
4,923 posts, read 5,428,303 times
Reputation: 4778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
Well... Banks hold the laundried money right... YOu have seen the movie Scareface...or Bad Boys II...
Yes I agree its all the Jews fault they own all the banks, they own every single one, not a single bank in America isn't owned by a Jew lol..
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
5,743 posts, read 2,724,479 times
Reputation: 6486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
I will go deeper into what I believe is holding the City back.. it is intentionally being held back.. NO.. I dont mean by white people or even black people as a whole.. but by capitalism and corruption.

1) Poverty is an industry (prisons, jails, rehab programs, training programs, etc etc) all of these programs are run by not for profits and some for profits.. many of which pay hefty salaries to their Executive Directors (or Shareholders) and manage Federal, State or Local tax dollars/grants to operate. What is their goal? To reduced the number of addicts on the street? Really, that would put them out of business right? Now Im not saying that they are ALL bad or devious.. but all it takes is a few.....

2)Politics- "us versus them" Both Republicans and Democrats run for office and are put there/kept there by people either making decisions to support programs that benefit the poor or impoverished or trying to scale them back. Both groups have constituencies that support their efforts depending on where you are on the political spectrum.

3)Corruption or "Legal" Incentives- I dont need to explain the corruption or graft.. not just by some elected officials but some rank and file City Employees by not doing their job, taking bribes, taking liberties with their timesheets by adding overtime or using their position to hire friends and family...further weighing down and already broke city. That along with the millions of tax breaks given to developers (who may not even need them) to develop projects on the Gold Coast which politicians use as a Photo Op along with the normal campaign contribution while not providing similiar level of incentives in other areas.

4) Organized Crime (no not the Sopranos)- This goes far beyond some street level drug dealer selling dope on your stoop. The individuals that control the supply of drugs that flow in and out of the City laundry their money through "fronts" businesses that are funded by drugs and real estate (i.e vacants). If I am a drug supplier.. I would buy up every vacant I could find under the name of a shell corp or simply acquire it from the owner and let their name stay on the deed especially if it belonged to the children/relatives of a dead heir whose family walked away from it or took cash for it and live around the corner and agree to letting it stay in their name. Then I would just sit on it.. I would keep it boarded up or pay off City Code Inspectors to leave it alone I would use these vacants to stash drugs for street level dealers and allow addicts to flop in them. If you own the whole block and both sides of the street.. then who is going to call the Police? Why would the Police care? You see these signs around... "We Buy Houses" I wonder who puts those signs up.. since they are always on a vacant house or in a blighted neighborhood. When they get a hold of the house next to you and let it run down.. you will likely sell your house to them too just to get out...blight breed blight.....If you own blocks of vacants and you can create you own "Open Air Drug Market" and control everything from the distribution to the sale. Then these same operators contribute (via shell corp) to local and state level political campaigns. Whether the politicos know it or not... is debatable.

Note: I said this in another thread.. why didnt all of West Baltimore go up in flames? People could have easily burned blocks of vacants and had the fire department sending in back up from Annapolis to get it under control and looted way more stores than they did on the Westside. Only certain stores were hit and blocks of vacants didnt burn.... In the meantime try to find an open Drug Store anywhere near West Baltimore or even parts of Hampden or Remington which are near but not on the Westside.. They are CLOSED and Boarded Up for safety precaustions... Why?... Looters went for products and for the drugs.. so they stayed closed.. What products they dont use will be sold on street corners and bus stops and proceeds used to buy????? You guessed it more drugs to be smoked and consumed in vacants along abandoned streets owned by those I described above. Baltimore is Smalltimore... organized crime is part of the economy whether the politicos want to admit it or not...
You make really good points. What I'm wondering though, is why Baltimore can't make a turn-around when other cities have? DC had many serious drug/gang/corruption problems in the 90s, and became a world-class city almost overnight. Philadelphia has made huge strides (and continues to make huge strides as evident by its economic growth and all of its new developments) since the 90s and it is much larger than Baltimore, and at one time had just as much crime and corruption. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and St. Louis (city proper, not Ferguson) have been making strong progress, despite having at one time much poorer economies than Baltimore.

Baltimore is in one of the wealthiest states, has a natural tourist attraction in the harbor, has one of the leading medical/research institutions (Hopkins), and is in a region with a strong economy. A lot of the inner city issues- corruption/drugs/crime/politics are issues that many cities deal with. I'm just curious why these issues have plagued Baltimore for years, while other cities have been able to rise above these issues; especially given some of the natural advantages that Baltimore has??
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Old 05-03-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,346 posts, read 1,684,630 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
You make really good points. What I'm wondering though, is why Baltimore can't make a turn-around when other cities have? DC had many serious drug/gang/corruption problems in the 90s, and became a world-class city almost overnight. Philadelphia has made huge strides (and continues to make huge strides as evident by its economic growth and all of its new developments) since the 90s and it is much larger than Baltimore, and at one time had just as much crime and corruption. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and St. Louis (city proper, not Ferguson) have been making strong progress, despite having at one time much poorer economies than Baltimore.

Baltimore is in one of the wealthiest states, has a natural tourist attraction in the harbor, has one of the leading medical/research institutions (Hopkins), and is in a region with a strong economy. A lot of the inner city issues- corruption/drugs/crime/politics are issues that many cities deal with. I'm just curious why these issues have plagued Baltimore for years, while other cities have been able to rise above these issues; especially given some of the natural advantages that Baltimore has??
There are many reasons why. But I will stick to a classic one. Why open up a business in Baltimore and pay a higher real estate and tax rate than elsewhere? There is not a grand population in the city, is it profitable? But really, the city just has to many ghetto's and that scares people.
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Old 05-03-2015, 05:43 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,191,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
You make really good points. What I'm wondering though, is why Baltimore can't make a turn-around when other cities have? DC had many serious drug/gang/corruption problems in the 90s, and became a world-class city almost overnight. Philadelphia has made huge strides (and continues to make huge strides as evident by its economic growth and all of its new developments) since the 90s and it is much larger than Baltimore, and at one time had just as much crime and corruption. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and St. Louis (city proper, not Ferguson) have been making strong progress, despite having at one time much poorer economies than Baltimore.
We are on a City-Data forum but nobody ever presents any city data with their posts. I think you can make an argument that Pittsburgh is doing better than Baltimore right now, especially if you look at recent trends. I don't see how you can claim that Cleveland and St. Louis are doing better than Baltimore (at least up until last week.)

If you look key census statistics 2013 vs. 2010 (household creation, population change, college attainment, vacancy, and per capita income) you will see Pittsburgh leading in nearly all of them. Baltimore leads in household creation by a lot. Cleveland is in last place virtually everywhere. Baltimore is second in most categories. St. Louis does well (second place) educational attainment but is doing very poorly on vacancy status and trends. Per capita income in Pittsburgh is 7% higher than Baltimore's. Per capita income in St. Louis is 19% lower and in Cleveland is 33% lower than Pittsburgh's. Somehow Cleveland manages to position itself as doing much better than Baltimore but that is nothing like the truth.

The riots will clearly knock the wind out of Baltimore sails, but before the riots there was a steady breeze.
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
684 posts, read 812,723 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
You make really good points. What I'm wondering though, is why Baltimore can't make a turn-around when other cities have? DC had many serious drug/gang/corruption problems in the 90s, and became a world-class city almost overnight. Philadelphia has made huge strides (and continues to make huge strides as evident by its economic growth and all of its new developments) since the 90s and it is much larger than Baltimore, and at one time had just as much crime and corruption. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and St. Louis (city proper, not Ferguson) have been making strong progress, despite having at one time much poorer economies than Baltimore.

Baltimore is in one of the wealthiest states, has a natural tourist attraction in the harbor, has one of the leading medical/research institutions (Hopkins), and is in a region with a strong economy. A lot of the inner city issues- corruption/drugs/crime/politics are issues that many cities deal with. I'm just curious why these issues have plagued Baltimore for years, while other cities have been able to rise above these issues; especially given some of the natural advantages that Baltimore has??
An urban turnaround is such a broad topic? What do you mean revitalization, crime, population, what is an urban turnaround. There have definitely been many strides in "urban turnarounds" in Baltimore so if you think the city is in the same state it was in the 70s, 80s, 90s then I would ask you what made you come to the conclusion that it hasn't made any turnarounds? Is it because of a recent riot that have persuaded you that the city as a whole lacks in urban development? What a lot of people forget is that crime in Baltimore is no where near the peak numbers each city in the Bos-Wash corridor seen in the 80s-90s. Baltimore's peak homicide count of 353 slayings was in 1993. In 2011, Baltimore police reported 196 homicides, the lowest number of slayings since recording 197 homicides in 1978. Even though those number increased in 2012, 2013 they were more than 100 less homicides than in 1993. What also could be said is that Baltimore hasn't gentrified (pushed out African Americans to the counties) as much as DC, Philadelphia, and so on as quickly. Maybe if you don't know anything about Baltimore you wouldn't know that Downtown Baltimore gained 9,000 jobs in 2013 to become the 12th- largest employment center in the United States with more than 122,000 employees and has an active industrial port essential to Maryland's economy. You also wouldn't know that much of the city is not defined by poverty stricken areas, and has seen a population increase for the first time in 60 years in 2013. You would see that skyscrapers are being proposed, obsolete brutalism-style theaters demolished and even old parking garages turned into apartment complexes for the growing millennial population downtown and in surrounding areas. As far as urban revitalization you just listed one "the harbor" and opposed to what you believe the city never had a "natural tourist attraction" as you say. Before the harbor was revitalized it was one of the most disgusting and filthy places you would ever want to be PBS did a whole documentary on this revitalization. That video can be found here Global Harbors: A Waterfront Renaissance | Watch Documentaries Online | Promote Documentary Film. The harbor was never supposed to be a tourist attraction it was developed in mind solely for the citizens of Baltimore. In 1976, when eight Tall Ships sailed to Baltimore from all over the World assembled for the U.S. Bicentennial tied up at the Inner Harbor and held open house for ten days of celebrations. The result was hundreds of thousands of people - the raw material for an international tourist destination and that's how tourism at the harbor was born.

If you lived to see the transformation of the inner harbor, fells point, federal hill, Otterbein the so called nice/gentrified parts you see today that at one point in time looked much like where the riots took place in west Baltimore today you would know that is a false statement. Just to give you a picture of how bad the inner harbor area and surrounding neighborhoods once were is to imagine the same row homes that sell in the area today from 350k to 500k were sold for $1 back in the 1970s when they were auctioned off to be rehabbed by private investors. I have the pictures to prove it. This transformation was very revolutionary and started way before the internet age or any other city in the U.S. or world. Downtown and a world class waterfront revitalization was started by Mayor Thomas D’Alesandro in March 1958 with the development of Charles Center downtown. I don't think many people on here even know that the harbor was described by the Urban Land Institute in 2009 as “the model for post-industrial waterfront redevelopment around the world. Or even that it influenced more than 100 other cities (Sydney, Rotterdam, Barcelona, Osaka, Belfast, Capetown, Norfolk, Long Beach, Honolulu, Pittsburgh, DC, San Diego, New York, Boston, etc) and won more than 40 national or international awards, including a citation by the American Institute of Architects in 1984 as “one of the supreme achievements of large-scale urban design and development in U.S. history." I don't even think that people know that as we speak two huge developments are under construction/completed Harbor East and Harbor Point which were built on once toxic industrial waste sites on the waterfront. After seeing this transformation anything is truly possible.

Again it all depends on what is an urban turnaround because there are no shortage of them in Baltimore.

Last edited by Northernest Southernest C; 05-03-2015 at 09:25 PM..
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