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I'm from the Park Heights Community and remember how much money we made as kids helping white folks carry their stuff from wherever they parked to the front gate. Tips were awesome, made some connections. Those were the days!! Lol Man..I was making some $$$$!! My family parked cars as well since we were right across the street from Pimilico.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands
I may get slammed for this but... here it goes..
Is it more valueable to have the Preakness in the City or to redevelop Pimlico in a manner similiar to Garden State Racetrack in New Jersey? There they have made a nice mixed use development with housing office and retail..
To me, why not do that at Pimlico (there is already a concept in the Park Heights Master Plan that speaks to this) and allow Sinai to expand over there along with new housing and retail.. It could attract in new stores to a city that is void of many of the national retail chains.. Not that chains are wonderful but in Park Heights.. this could become a city wide retail district much like Canton Crossing.. which pulls in people from the City and the County. This site is close to Roland Park, Guilford, Mt. Washington, Upper Park Heights, Coldspring Newtown, Woodberry, Ashburton, Pikesville which more than compensate for being next to "Park Heights". It could also strengthen areas like Glen and Cylburn that are next door.
I say keep a part of the grandstand and use it as a year round concert venue which could rival the Pavillion in Columbia and be a much larger venue than Pier 6.
I think the Preakness is great and all.. but a horsetrack in the middle of a tax revenue poor City just seems like a poor use of land resources... In laurel.. they can continue to pull in folks from both DC and Baltimore.. not to mention if its on a Sunday.. most people will likely still stay in Baltimore in order to take advantage of the restaurants and night life.. They could also run special trains on the Camden Line from Camden Yards... since there is a station a Laurel Park that could be enhanced.. There is plenty of land for people to camp out in RVs and what not.. something that cant be done at Pimlico...I say move it...
One thing that I have found intereting is the black market in Park Heights (no pun intented) where people rent out parking lots (south of the track), sell drinks, and where kids used to haul beer for drunk suburbanites up to the track has partly evaporated because of rule changes and new ventures at the track. I dont believe outside beer is allowed anymore.. which has reduced the amount of yougins being able to earn a quick dime.. and many people dont drive to Preakness anymore with the advent of the Party Bus coming in from everywhere, Uber, Shuttle Coaches from the Light Rail and Poly... All of these things have destroyed the "neighborhood benefits" of having Preakness in Park Heights but certainly the Citywide ones still exist.....
Last edited by Infinite_heights77; 05-19-2015 at 12:25 PM..
*Yup! That was us..circa 1970's $$$$! I would tell you that a infamous Philadelphia LCN mobster parked in back of my grandmother's yard one year, but, you wouldn't believe me if I told. Lol!
"One thing that I have found intereting is the black market in Park Heights (no pun intented) where people rent out parking lots (south of the track), sell drinks, and where kids used to haul beer for drunk suburbanites up to the track has partly evaporated because of rule changes and new ventures at the track. I dont believe outside beer is allowed anymore.. which has reduced the amount of yougins being able to earn a quick dime.. and many people dont drive to Preakness anymore with the advent of the Party Bus coming in from everywhere, Uber, Shuttle Coaches from the Light Rail and Poly... All of these things have destroyed the "neighborhood benefits" of having Preakness in Park Heights but certainly the Citywide ones still exist.....[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands
I may get slammed for this but... here it goes..
Is it more valueable to have the Preakness in the City or to redevelop Pimlico in a manner similiar to Garden State Racetrack in New Jersey? There they have made a nice mixed use development with housing office and retail..
To me, why not do that at Pimlico (there is already a concept in the Park Heights Master Plan that speaks to this) and allow Sinai to expand over there along with new housing and retail.. It could attract in new stores to a city that is void of many of the national retail chains.. Not that chains are wonderful but in Park Heights.. this could become a city wide retail district much like Canton Crossing.. which pulls in people from the City and the County. This site is close to Roland Park, Guilford, Mt. Washington, Upper Park Heights, Coldspring Newtown, Woodberry, Ashburton, Pikesville which more than compensate for being next to "Park Heights". It could also strengthen areas like Glen and Cylburn that are next door.
I say keep a part of the grandstand and use it as a year round concert venue which could rival the Pavillion in Columbia and be a much larger venue than Pier 6.
I think the Preakness is great and all.. but a horsetrack in the middle of a tax revenue poor City just seems like a poor use of land resources... In laurel.. they can continue to pull in folks from both DC and Baltimore.. not to mention if its on a Sunday.. most people will likely still stay in Baltimore in order to take advantage of the restaurants and night life.. They could also run special trains on the Camden Line from Camden Yards... since there is a station a Laurel Park that could be enhanced.. There is plenty of land for people to camp out in RVs and what not.. something that cant be done at Pimlico...I say move it...
One thing that I have found intereting is the black market in Park Heights (no pun intented) where people rent out parking lots (south of the track), sell drinks, and where kids used to haul beer for drunk suburbanites up to the track has partly evaporated because of rule changes and new ventures at the track. I dont believe outside beer is allowed anymore.. which has reduced the amount of yougins being able to earn a quick dime.. and many people dont drive to Preakness anymore with the advent of the Party Bus coming in from everywhere, Uber, Shuttle Coaches from the Light Rail and Poly... All of these things have destroyed the "neighborhood benefits" of having Preakness in Park Heights but certainly the Citywide ones still exist.....
What kind of relationship does Pimilico have with The Maryland Jockey Club??! It's reminiscent of some old broken down marriage and all they wanna do is really divorce, but want to stick around for the kids type ish. Do they even have respect for one another as institutions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by james777
They have been threatening to move the Preakness away from Pimlico for the past 25 years, either to Laurel, or out of state. We all know how it is going to end; if the city wants them to stay, they are going to have to pay. We the US taxpayers will end up footing the bill. That means everyone, you people in Idaho and Arizona too. I say goodbye and good riddance!!
*Yup! That was us..circa 1970's $$$$! I would tell you that a infamous Philadelphia LCN mobster parked in back of my grandmother's yard one year, but, you wouldn't believe me if I told. Lol!
"One thing that I have found intereting is the black market in Park Heights (no pun intented) where people rent out parking lots (south of the track), sell drinks, and where kids used to haul beer for drunk suburbanites up to the track has partly evaporated because of rule changes and new ventures at the track. I dont believe outside beer is allowed anymore.. which has reduced the amount of yougins being able to earn a quick dime.. and many people dont drive to Preakness anymore with the advent of the Party Bus coming in from everywhere, Uber, Shuttle Coaches from the Light Rail and Poly... All of these things have destroyed the "neighborhood benefits" of having Preakness in Park Heights but certainly the Citywide ones still exist.....
[/quote]
The irony is that kind of 'shadow' economy is discounted by economists and city boosters.. I can guarantee you that some of those youngsters did use their money to buy things that they needed and move on to become part of the workforce.. others may not have. I suspect that people were also not getting mugged or things like that since the 'shadow' economy recognized that if that occurred people would be less likely to park in these areas and pay to have their beer hauled. I am curious if there were many car break ins on these private lots.. From what i was told.. some of the people that parked on them may never have ventured into PH the other 364 days per year.. But once they found a private lot with a loyal and vigilent attendent who protected their vehicle.. they continued to park there year after year during Preakness. Thus a mutual benefit to both parties.. Again.. Don t know if that is occurring anymore due to some of the factors listed above.. but it seemed to be quite a productive relationship between the suburbanites and the denizens of PH during the good old days...
Now.. as Pimlico closes ranks.. there seems to be less benefit to the immediate. Does the City win by having the $80M for a one day event vs.. how much would they get if they have a new development paying both City Taxes, Sales Taxes and Income Taxes knowing that you wont lose all of that $80M because people will still be staying or venturing into Baltimore to party.. I mean.. who wants to hang out in downtown Laurel??? Though I would be mindful that Downtown Columbia and the Pavillion could pose a threat at some point with the race being so close by........
In addition, there are many small owned African American businesses (mainly West Indian eateries around the heights) who make some good money during Preakness time.
The irony is that kind of 'shadow' economy is discounted by economists and city boosters.. I can guarantee you that some of those youngsters did use their money to buy things that they needed and move on to become part of the workforce.. others may not have. I suspect that people were also not getting mugged or things like that since the 'shadow' economy recognized that if that occurred people would be less likely to park in these areas and pay to have their beer hauled. I am curious if there were many car break ins on these private lots.. From what i was told.. some of the people that parked on them may never have ventured into PH the other 364 days per year.. But once they found a private lot with a loyal and vigilent attendent who protected their vehicle.. they continued to park there year after year during Preakness. Thus a mutual benefit to both parties.. Again.. Don t know if that is occurring anymore due to some of the factors listed above.. but it seemed to be quite a productive relationship between the suburbanites and the denizens of PH during the good old days...
Now.. as Pimlico closes ranks.. there seems to be less benefit to the immediate. Does the City win by having the $80M for a one day event vs.. how much would they get if they have a new development paying both City Taxes, Sales Taxes and Income Taxes knowing that you wont lose all of that $80M because people will still be staying or venturing into Baltimore to party.. I mean.. who wants to hang out in downtown Laurel??? Though I would be mindful that Downtown Columbia and the Pavillion could pose a threat at some point with the race being so close by........[/quote]
[quote=Infinite_heights77;39726593]In addition, there are many small owned African American businesses (mainly West Indian eateries around the heights) who make some good money during Preakness time.
I have often wondered why the City doesnt have the Caribbean Festival.. which moved from Druid Hill to Clifton Park at Pimlico? I know that its privately owned.. but it seems like to perfect event to have there if you want to highlight the West Indian culture of the City and promote that area as such a district.. Clifton Park is not only across town.. its far from the cultural center of the West Indian Community. If they hosted it at Pimlico.. they could run shuttle buses from Rogers Ave Metro Station which could ferry people up from downtown and/or Penn Station(State Center) or down from Owings Mills
Also, if you want a more diverse crowd Pimlico resonates with most as did Druid Hill Park.. Clifton is still a harder sell with Coldstream Montebello next door..Atleast PH has Mt. Washington and is close to the County (Owings Mills) and some of the middle to upper income african american areas that may also have an interest in attending if it was in what one may considered a "safe" venue.. Dont get me wrong.. I have no problems going to Coldstream Montebello.. but I live in the City and know where to avoid and when.. If I wasnt from Baltimore.. I would be hard pressed to venture into CM without an escort especially to a venue that may end at dark and or where parking may be off site (i.e. in the hood)....
[URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/tag/baltimore/"]Baltimore[/URL], [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/tag/baltimore-preakness/"]Baltimore Preakness[/URL], [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/tag/moving-preakness/"]Moving Preakness[/URL], [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/tag/preakness/"]Preakness[/URL], [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/tag/preakness-stakes/"]Preakness Stakes[/URL] Alex DeMetrick Alex DeMetrick has been a general assignment reporter with WJZ...
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BALTIMORE (WJZ) — Preakness has long been a Baltimore tradition and we just wrapped up a weekend of excitement—but there may come a time when it’s no longer here in Baltimore. Alex DeMetrick has more on that possibility.
As possibilities go, moving the Preakness is the last thing the Maryland Jockey Club wants to do, but there are a lot of factors in play and a final decision is yet to be made.
Rain or shine, this race has been run in Baltimore the past 140 years.
“And I know that as soon as you say or even hint that the Preakness is going to move to Laurel, everybody goes `Oh my God,'” said Maryland Jockey Club vice president Sal Sinatra. “It’s not that [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/could-preakness-leave-baltimore/#"]simple[/URL].”
It has to do with Pimlico’s age. Built in 1870, it is the nation’s second oldest track.
“the problem is [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/could-preakness-leave-baltimore/#"]investing[/URL] into this building. The structure can’t handle building onto it and it would be a total rebuild,” Sinatra said.
Costing upwards of half a billion dollars. But the Canadian company that owns the Jockey Club and Pimlico also owns a newer track…sort of. Laurel Park was built in 1911 and Laurel has room to grow. A major overhaul here could make it the state’s premier track and a tempting venue for the Preakness.
“If they moved the Preakness to Laurel, we’re going to lose hotel rooms, visitation. All the restaurants are going to lose out,” said Mike Evitts, Downtown Partnership.
The Downtown Partnership of Baltimore believes moving the race will mean visitors move down the road.
“The [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/could-preakness-leave-baltimore/#"]economic[/URL] hit to Baltimore is going to be huge. The big gainers would be Anne Arundel and Prince George’s counties,” Evitts said.
And a hit to the neighborhood around the track that celebrates the race and cashes in on turning yards to parking lots.
“It brings a lot of [URL="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/could-preakness-leave-baltimore/#"]money[/URL] to our neighborhood so I’d rather for it to be here than Laurel,” said Karonn Taylor.
There are options at Pimlico. If year-round racing moves to Laurel, barns could be taken down and the land sold to raise money and the Preakness would be reconfigured as a standalone event.
“Maybe in time reducing this meet to a festival meet. That’s why we talked about possibly moving the Preakness to Sunday and do a weekend Preakness,” Sinatra said.
Stretching the biggest weekend of the year while horses run the rest of the year at Laurel.
Also in the mix is another bit of economics: the Maryland Jockey Club says it is losing between $3,000,000 and $6,000,000 a year running two old tracks.
The only part of Pimlico that was built in 1870 burned down in 1966. The Old Members Clubhouse that was actually historically restored by the Cohen Brothers in 1956 including custom Victorian millwork and the original paint colors--red roof, green shutters and yellow siding. The inside had red carpet and crystal chandeliers. I wish everyone would stop listening to Sal Sinatra and Tim Ritvo when they say the physical plant is 140 years old.
The existing physical plant was built from the ground up about 65 years ago. The old Riggs building and paddock was torn down. The existing clubhouse was built between 1959-1961 by Ben and Herman Cohen and it took years to get the funding released. It is built on poured concrete footers of reinforced concrete and steel with tempered glass. It has a free-standing staircase with a gilt railing and walnut paneling on the wall. They added padded theatre style seating and restaurants.
Look at the photos of Kauai King winning the Preakness in 1966 and Pleasant Colony winning in 1981. Pimlico looks like a huge glass brick house if ya know what I mean. It's spectacular. State of the art. Pimlico always set the pace for state of the art. First to use pari-mutuel 1913. First to use a modified version of totalizer board 1930. First on the east coast and first of the Triple Crown to use electric starting gate. First to open the infield--thank you Chick Lang! Corporate Village makes a ton of money at Preakness. Not just the party crowd. Laurel has a swamp in the infield.
The three horses on the outside wall above the clubhouse entrance were installed in 1961. They were commissioned by the Cohen Brothers and created by renowned sculptor Bernard Zuckerman after the Currier & Ives illustration of the Great Baltimore Sweepstakes race of 1877. Parole, Tom Ochiltree and Ten Broech. It was the race that both houses of Congress adjourned to attend. Installed in pieces, once completed the sculpture was covered in 24 karat gold leaf. Move it and it’s ruined. It’s priceless.
The grandstand was also rebuilt around the same time although the corrugated siding was not well received. Compared to an airport hangar. When Joe and Karin DeFrancis took over Pimlico they made many upgrades to enhance the track and also to bring it up to code. They fully utilized the infield and enlarged the corporate village.
Yes, Pimlico needs a lot of work. Your house would too if you did nothing to it in 15 years. Think Grey Gardens. If the Preakness moves to Laurel and Pimlico turns to office spaces, it will be a dark day for North American Thoroughbred Racing. Hollywood Park was painful enough but Pimlico is spiritual. It's racing's cathedral.
"..I think the Preakness is great and all.. but a horsetrack in the middle of a tax revenue poor City just seems like a poor use of land resources... In laurel.. they can continue to pull in folks from both DC and Baltimore.."
*Too many poor African Americans is what you're really saying Woodlands, don't candy coat it with political correctness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands
I may get slammed for this but... here it goes..
Is it more valueable to have the Preakness in the City or to redevelop Pimlico in a manner similiar to Garden State Racetrack in New Jersey? There they have made a nice mixed use development with housing office and retail..
To me, why not do that at Pimlico (there is already a concept in the Park Heights Master Plan that speaks to this) and allow Sinai to expand over there along with new housing and retail.. It could attract in new stores to a city that is void of many of the national retail chains.. Not that chains are wonderful but in Park Heights.. this could become a city wide retail district much like Canton Crossing.. which pulls in people from the City and the County. This site is close to Roland Park, Guilford, Mt. Washington, Upper Park Heights, Coldspring Newtown, Woodberry, Ashburton, Pikesville which more than compensate for being next to "Park Heights". It could also strengthen areas like Glen and Cylburn that are next door.
I say keep a part of the grandstand and use it as a year round concert venue which could rival the Pavillion in Columbia and be a much larger venue than Pier 6.
I think the Preakness is great and all.. but a horsetrack in the middle of a tax revenue poor City just seems like a poor use of land resources... In laurel.. they can continue to pull in folks from both DC and Baltimore.. not to mention if its on a Sunday.. most people will likely still stay in Baltimore in order to take advantage of the restaurants and night life.. They could also run special trains on the Camden Line from Camden Yards... since there is a station a Laurel Park that could be enhanced.. There is plenty of land for people to camp out in RVs and what not.. something that cant be done at Pimlico...I say move it...
One thing that I have found intereting is the black market in Park Heights (no pun intented) where people rent out parking lots (south of the track), sell drinks, and where kids used to haul beer for drunk suburbanites up to the track has partly evaporated because of rule changes and new ventures at the track. I dont believe outside beer is allowed anymore.. which has reduced the amount of yougins being able to earn a quick dime.. and many people dont drive to Preakness anymore with the advent of the Party Bus coming in from everywhere, Uber, Shuttle Coaches from the Light Rail and Poly... All of these things have destroyed the "neighborhood benefits" of having Preakness in Park Heights but certainly the Citywide ones still exist.....
Pimilico is a dump and needs to close. It is unworthy of an event such as this.
I predicted the Preakness moving out years ago so I'm surprised it hasen't happened yet. IMO it at least needs to move to Laurel.
To address their hours of operation - Charles Town has been racing nights as long as I can remember. Crowds were never big, before and after the casino. Horseracing's popularity declined because many prefer the lottery and casinos which except for a few places around the country did not exist during it's peak of popularity.
Pimilico is a dump and needs to close. It is unworthy of an event such as this.
I predicted the Preakness moving out years ago so I'm surprised it hasen't happened yet. IMO it at least needs to move to Laurel.
To address their hours of operation - Charles Town has been racing nights as long as I can remember. Crowds were never big, before and after the casino. Horseracing's popularity declined because many prefer the lottery and casinos which except for a few places around the country did not exist during it's peak of popularity.
The other theory is that is moves to Westport in the land of Kevin Plank.. Though I have heard that the site is not large enough.. but who knows.. Quite frankly if it could fit down there.. I say move it there.. people could take a water taxi from the Casino to the Track then over to Disneyland (aka Port Covington) before venturing all the way around to the Inner Harbor.. I assume the Middle Branch is deep enough for a water taxi.....There is already a robust Master Plan for Pimlico in the Park Heights Master Plan.. I say move forward.. as they did with Garden State Racetrack in NJ.. Both Pimlico and Park Heights are in decline...so something is got to give if there will be meaningful change for either..History and nostalgia aside... I don't think a renovated track at its currently location is the answer..
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Man..I was making some $$$$
The only part of Pimlico that was built in 1870 burned down in 1966. The Old Members Clubhouse that was actually historically restored by the Cohen Brothers in 1956 including custom Victorian millwork and the original paint colors--red roof, green shutters and yellow siding. The inside had red carpet and crystal chandeliers. I wish everyone would stop listening to Sal Sinatra and Tim Ritvo when they say the physical plant is 140 years old. 
