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Thank you for this interesting and thoughtful post. It's a comparison that is near and dear to my heart, as my wife is originally from Memphis and we have lived in Baltimore for over 17 years now. Thanks for sharing.
I enjoyed this recent series on inequality from Places Journal. Memphis and Baltimore (and Houston) are featured and the articles, I thought, were well-researched and well-written:
Thanks for sharing.. very interesting.. it helps put a lot of things into perspective. Memphis is putting together a Heritage Tour which will feature a lot of the City's racial history and communities. This is an idea that many places have been afraid to feature, but cities like Memphis are turning what was clearly a negative experience into a learning experience along with being an attraction that will hopefully spur development in some of the areas. I was surprised to learn from the trail planners that Baltimore's Heritage Trail is being used as a benchmark for Memphis.. I was stunned since I live in Baltimore and didn't know that we had a Heritage Trail per se. I know that we have heritage sites that are connected but I didn't know we had an "official" heritage trail.
I stayed downtown at the Sheraton which is across the street from the Convention Center and walked the 10-12 blocks to Beale Street. (There were shuttles running.. the vintage trolleys were out of service which was a disappointment) After filling my belly with BBQ and local hooch.. I found myself on Beale St at 1 am.. the trolley stopped running at mid night.. So not wanting to be wuss...and knowing that I have walked around downtown Baltimore at similar hours..... I hoofed it back to the Sheraton... an interesting experience to say the least. I stayed on Main Street and it was completely deserted aside from a few homeless people.. there where characters darting here and there mainly stragglers from Beale St or people getting dropped off at their hotels which are scattered up and down Main. Needless to say when I got back to the hotel.. the doorman looked at me in awe as if he was surprised I made it. He told me about the various shootings late at night off of beale st and the muggings that happen in downtown.. because it is desolate.. he said "no one is around to hear you scream"
In fact the last night I was down there.. Beale St was wall to wall with people.. I was leaving the "secure area" (note: at a certain time.. Beale Street is fenced off and you need an ID and to go through a metal detector to get on to the street.) and a stampede occurred when a brawl from club 152 spilled out on to the street. Dozens of folks were injured and I fortunately was on the far eastern end of the street( BB Kings is on the western more populated end) and made a quick exit before the wave of humanity reached me. Most people thought it was a shooting (which turned out to be simply glass bottles breaking). Personally, the City should fine Club 152.. like at the Power Plant.. their bouncers need to learn how to eject someone without causing a near riot. Seems like they used some unnecessary force that caused patrons waiting in line to run in order to get out of the way of the melee thus prompting the stampede... Memphis PD seemed somewhat powerless during the ordeal and used their patrol cars as barriers against the tide of people running. Anyway.. note to self.. leave any "entertainment district" before midnight or risk being turned into a pumpkin....
Last edited by Woodlands; 06-06-2016 at 08:45 AM..
I would say "yes".. a lot of the attitudes that you reference about the City not being progressive, backwards, trifling etc harken back to small town feel which is often associated, right or wrongly, as a "southern" characteristic not to mention migratory patterns and even the City's interesting position during the Civil War and Maryland as a Border State. Now..the "new" south often exhibited in places like Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, and Raleigh have evolved beyond that.. but one can argue that could be in part a combination of transplant and homegrown values/ideas
I'd have to disagree. That sort of attitude might have been associated with Southern cities especially hostile to integration during the 60's, but in the years since those descriptors have mostly been applied to cities that experienced massive deindustrialization, riots, racial strife, etc. and are associated much more with Northern cities.
I think in some outlying neighborhoods you can get a slight Southern feel but overall, it feels more Northern.
I remember NYC during the 1970's, especially Brooklyn (grandfather's borough), and it was a extremely rough area and time for the city. Gangs and criminal crews still ran amuck in The City, graffiti on the subways, the smells of cannabis, gun smoke, garbage and urine was pretty apparent during the 70's/80's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwduvall
According to my friend, in the 70's even Brooklyn Heights was a slum. That wasn't the case when I first visited that neighborhood in the 90's and the place is off the charts prosperous now.
Thanks for sharing.. very interesting.. it helps put a lot of things into perspective. Memphis is putting together a Heritage Tour which will feature a lot of the City's racial history and communities. This is an idea that many places have been afraid to feature, but cities like Memphis are turning what was clearly a negative experience into a learning experience along with being an attraction that will hopefully spur development in some of the areas. I was surprised to learn from the trail planners that Baltimore's Heritage Trail is being used as a benchmark for Memphis.. I was stunned since I live in Baltimore and didn't know that we had a Heritage Trail per se. I know that we have heritage sites that are connected but I didn't know we had an "official" heritage trail.
I stayed downtown at the Sheraton which is across the street from the Convention Center and walked the 10-12 blocks to Beale Street. (There were shuttles running.. the vintage trolleys were out of service which was a disappointment) After filling my belly with BBQ and local hooch.. I found myself on Beale St at 1 am.. the trolley stopped running at mid night.. So not wanting to be wuss...and knowing that I have walked around downtown Baltimore at similar hours..... I hoofed it back to the Sheraton... an interesting experience to say the least. I stayed on Main Street and it was completely deserted aside from a few homeless people.. there where characters darting here and there mainly stragglers from Beale St or people getting dropped off at their hotels which are scattered up and down Main. Needless to say when I got back to the hotel.. the doorman looked at me in awe as if he was surprised I made it. He told me about the various shootings late at night off of beale st and the muggings that happen in downtown.. because it is desolate.. he said "no one is around to hear you scream"
In fact the last night I was down there.. Beale St was wall to wall with people.. I was leaving the "secure area" (note: at a certain time.. Beale Street is fenced off and you need an ID and to go through a metal detector to get on to the street.) and a stampede occurred when a brawl from club 152 spilled out on to the street. Dozens of folks were injured and I fortunately was on the far eastern end of the street( BB Kings is on the western more populated end) and made a quick exit before the wave of humanity reached me. Most people thought it was a shooting (which turned out to be simply glass bottles breaking). Personally, the City should fine Club 152.. like at the Power Plant.. their bouncers need to learn how to eject someone without causing a near riot. Seems like they used some unnecessary force that caused patrons waiting in line to run in order to get out of the way of the melee thus prompting the stampede... Memphis PD seemed somewhat powerless during the ordeal and used their patrol cars as barriers against the tide of people running. Anyway.. note to self.. leave any "entertainment district" before midnight or risk being turned into a pumpkin....
That sounds about right. My cousin was mugged in downtown Memphis back in 2013 a few streets over from Beale. She chose to walk back to her hotel, like you because she said it appeared to be ok with all of the pedestrian activity going on Beale Street. The city is not safe for a young woman walking alone after hours.
Anyway.. note to self.. leave any "entertainment district" before midnight or risk being turned into a pumpkin....
You know the old saying: "Nothing good happens after midnight." There's a lot of truth to that . . . especially when you're in an area where there's a lot of drinking going on, and/or an area known to have a high rate of crime in general.
I have a friend who currently lives in Baltimore but is originally from Brooklyn (during the bad old days.) He is pretty down on Baltimore but came back even more down on Memphis after spending a few days there. I know another couple that was happy in Baltimore but left for a job opportunity in Memphis. They were very unhappy in Memphis and left after a couple of years. They live in NOVA now but still occasionally return to Baltimore to visit friends.
I'm sure there there are folks in Memphis that have opposing examples but I hear more positivity about just about everywhere else... even Baltimore for god sakes!
I hate to answer my own post, but another friend just visited Memphis. He goes to lots of cities on business and usually comes back with a "why can't Baltimore be more like City X?" statement. His bad (worse than Baltimore) reviews? He likes downtown Detroit but ventured outside the bubble last time... thumbs down on that. And he visited Memphis with his wife recently and they were quite underwhelmed. Just like everybody else it seems, he liked Nashville.
I hate to answer my own post, but another friend just visited Memphis. He goes to lots of cities on business and usually comes back with a "why can't Baltimore be more like City X?" statement. His bad (worse than Baltimore) reviews? He likes downtown Detroit but ventured outside the bubble last time... thumbs down on that. And he visited Memphis with his wife recently and they were quite underwhelmed. Just like everybody else it seems, he liked Nashville.
Thanks for sharing.. Seems like folks in the Memphis Forum struggle with the some of the same image issues and challenges that we do here Baltimore.. but I have met a few people ( that dont live here and who have visited both) and had similar observations when comparing to two cities. Memphis is also a very sprawling city which may have/is taking its toll on downtown.. That said, there seems to be some effort to revive the core and like Bmore there seems to be tons of opportunity. I think the Nashville thing is an issue though both cities have two entirely different feels and are far enough away from each other (unlike Bmo to DC) to have their own identity and uniqueness .
Another very important and scientific way to measure your city's clout is to pull up Googlemaps and look at the font/bolded city names.. If you pull into view both Baltimore and Memphis on the map Baltimore is in Bold while Memphis is not...... which proves that its a more important city.
Thanks for sharing.. Seems like folks in the Memphis Forum struggle with the some of the same image issues and challenges that we do here Baltimore.. but I have met a few people ( that dont live here and who have visited both) and had similar observations when comparing to two cities. Memphis is also a very sprawling city which may have/is taking its toll on downtown.. That said, there seems to be some effort to revive the core and like Bmore there seems to be tons of opportunity. I think the Nashville thing is an issue though both cities have two entirely different feels and are far enough away from each other (unlike Bmo to DC) to have their own identity and uniqueness .
Another very important and scientific way to measure your city's clout is to pull up Googlemaps and look at the font/bolded city names.. If you pull into view both Baltimore and Memphis on the map Baltimore is in Bold while Memphis is not...... which proves that its a more important city.
Yes, Memphis is a sprawling city, more than three times the size of Baltimore. However, the Baltimore metro area has more than twice the number of people that the Memphis metro area has, and more than three times the number of people use the Baltimore airport each year than use the Memphis airport. Both cities have a high poverty rate and a very high crime rate, so reviving the core in either city is very challenging.
Yes, Memphis is a sprawling city, more than three times the size of Baltimore. However, the Baltimore metro area has more than twice the number of people that the Memphis metro area has, and more than three times the number of people use the Baltimore airport each year than use the Memphis airport. Both cities have a high poverty rate and a very high crime rate, so reviving the core in either city is very challenging.
Baltimore is well on its way to reviving its core. It looks like Baltimore is back to the pre-riot conditions we saw in the very early part of 2015 and before.
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