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Old 09-03-2014, 06:42 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,545,307 times
Reputation: 43649

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoreJuice View Post
I'm curious, how come.. the homes in (any older development) are generally smaller...
Money. Most people don't NEED more space.
Most people didn't insist on paying for what they don't need until recently.

Quote:
...and similar looking?
Money. Most people don't NEED fancy or special.
Most people didn't insist on paying for what they don't need until recently.

From the developers end (and knowing the above)...
they focused on the steak and kept the sizzle to a minimum.
They still made plenty of money.

Little boxes may be emotionally sad (they are)
but when the prime motivation is OWNERSHIP ...it's a price that gets accepted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:34 PM
 
8,150 posts, read 13,212,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoreJuice View Post
I'm curious, how come as a collective whole, the homes in Park Heights are generally smaller and similar looking? Besides My Washington or Pimlico parts of Park Heights look bland to me.

To echo what Mr. Rational stated.. many of the areas of Park Heights, not unlike development today, were built by the same developer.. except rather than sprawling tract homes.. they did blocks of city rowhomes. People didnt have media rooms garages for cars, bonus rooms back in the 20s through the 50s which is when most of PH was built.. It was strictly utilitarian for what amounted to a 'working class' neighborhood.. so none of the bells and whistles per say.. Now, these homes are different than say the homes in the heart of west Baltimore in the fact that they had front yards, front porches, mansard roofs, treelined streets and some may have "area ways" that allowed light to get to the middle of the home.. In "historic" Park Heights the homes are duplex not a straight block of rowhomes. PH I believe would be considered a trolley car suburb in its day.

These were all new features for those looking to move out of West Baltimore and "move up" to the next level of rowhome living.. thus it appealed to many that were being displaced from urban renewal/redevelopment in West Baltimore.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Cheswolde
1,977 posts, read 6,783,136 times
Reputation: 573
Default The Civil War is the key

I am currently reading up on all the confusion in Baltimore during and after the Civil War. When Maryland stayed in the Union but when both the state and the city told Lincoln that Baltimore wanted nothing to do with the war. When huge numbers of pro-Confederate whites were disfranchised and got very upset that blacks were being granted voting rights at the time and federal troops could vote in local elections. When crypto-Democrats, hounded by the occupation troops, found safety in white-supremacist caucuses in the Union Party, as the Republican effort was called at the time, and then bolted out to form the Democratic Party, whose platform was white supremacy until past WWII.

I think all this holds the key to our subequent discussion.

If you want to pursue this, lots of period books available for free reading in facsimiles on Google Books. William Starr Myers is a good starting point. The Self-Reconstruction of Maryland, 1864-1867. Just write google books on your google and then search by the title.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:34 AM
 
2,483 posts, read 2,460,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barante View Post
Just write google books on your google
Are you a senior citizen? I'm sorry couldnt resist.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Cheswolde
1,977 posts, read 6,783,136 times
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Default Maybe this helps

If age is a handicap, here is the link The Self-reconstruction of Maryland, 1864-1867 - William Starr Myers - Google Books
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,076,032 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
To echo what Mr. Rational stated.. many of the areas of Park Heights, not unlike development today, were built by the same developer.. except rather than sprawling tract homes.. they did blocks of city rowhomes. People didnt have media rooms garages for cars, bonus rooms back in the 20s through the 50s which is when most of PH was built.. It was strictly utilitarian for what amounted to a 'working class' neighborhood.. so none of the bells and whistles per say.. Now, these homes are different than say the homes in the heart of west Baltimore in the fact that they had front yards, front porches, mansard roofs, treelined streets and some may have "area ways" that allowed light to get to the middle of the home.. In "historic" Park Heights the homes are duplex not a straight block of rowhomes. PH I believe would be considered a trolley car suburb in its day.

These were all new features for those looking to move out of West Baltimore and "move up" to the next level of rowhome living.. thus it appealed to many that were being displaced from urban renewal/redevelopment in West Baltimore.
Makes sense since that time the standards of housing were much different than we see today. But there are some unique sections in Pimlico and Ken Oak.
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Cheswolde
1,977 posts, read 6,783,136 times
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Default Roland Park's history

Roland Park's secrets are finally surfacing now that records kept at Cornell have returned to Johns Hopkins. Here is an update on restrictions against blacks and Jews: Roland Park: one of America's first garden suburbs, and built for whites only | Features | Johns Hopkins Magazine | Hub
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Old 09-13-2014, 12:13 PM
 
1,161 posts, read 2,435,665 times
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The article is a little misleading.

The restrictive clauses in deeds or discriminatory real estate practices employed by the Roland Park Company has never been a secret. It's been widely known for as long as I've lived in Baltimore, so the papers haven't revealed anything new.

The article did have two misleading statements. Blacks were not prohibited from living in Roland Park/Guilford/Homeland. They couldn't buy houses, but they did live in those neighborhoods as domestic servants. Up through WWII just about every house would have had a live in black maid and in the case of the bigger houses, as many as several servants. My house has rooms for two live in maids.

Ironically, there were probably more blacks living in North Baltimore in those days than today. After WWII the maids started living out and with their own families and coming up to North Baltimore on a daily basis.

The other misleading implication is that while JC Nichols, the mastermind behind the Kansas City Country Club District (yes, that is the actual name of his development) wrote to Bouton for advice on discriminatory clauses against Jews, he never actually enacted them. When the Jewish leaders of Kansas City got wind that Nichols was considering introducing the anti-semitic clauses, they met in his office and pointed out that the Jewish community had raised substantial sums in support of the WWI effort and charitable endeavors around Kansas City. Nichols backed away and as such Jews were never prohibited from building houses in the best areas of Kansas City. The country clubs, on the other hand, were still discriminatory, but the Jews built their own clubs.

I do find Bouton's paranoia about possible black buyers fascinating given that preciously few blacks could have afforded to buy houses in Roland Park. Mount Vernon never had the restricted deeds and sale clauses, but no black buyer dared buy into Mount Vernon. I suspect Bouton was concerned about the rapid transformation of formerly white neighborhoods into black neighborhoods near Bolton Hill. Many of the Roland Park buyers had come from Bolton Hill and people made the move out of a perception of declining desirability and declining property values in the older downtown neighborhoods, which was partly due to proximity to the expanding "black" neighborhoods on the other side of Eutaw Place.

It will always be to Bouton's discredit that he was so strict against Jewish buyers. It does bring to mind a story I was once told at a party attended by a very cultured old couple. They had moved to Baltimore in the late 1940s and had been recommended the Green Spring Valley. They went to see a house for sale in the valley and during the tour the real estate agent, a well behaved and pleasant young man, commented that the house was "restricted, of course."

The husband stopped and asked what he meant.

The agent said, "well, you know, restricted to only certain buyers."

The husband said, "oh, you mean no Jews?"

The agent said, "yes."

The wife laughed and said, "But we are Jewish."

The agent apparently became very embarrassed and said, "oh, I'm sure you'd be perfectly all right. They just don't want the wrong kind of Jews."



Quote:
Originally Posted by barante View Post
Roland Park's secrets are finally surfacing now that records kept at Cornell have returned to Johns Hopkins. Here is an update on restrictions against blacks and Jews: Roland Park: one of America's first garden suburbs, and built for whites only | Features | Johns Hopkins Magazine | Hub
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Old 09-13-2014, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Cheswolde
1,977 posts, read 6,783,136 times
Reputation: 573
Default It was all about bragging rights

A good post.

In Roland Park's case it was all about bragging rights. It wanted to establish itself as the city's most exclusive garden suburb. It was in competition with Forest Park and some others. Forest Park had covenants but not as strictly enforced as in Roland Park. So about the same time that Bouton finally -- after years of legal consultations -- bites the bullet and prohibits blacks (1910) and then bars any further sales to Jews (1913), Forest Park's exclusiveness was breaking down and the first trickle of Jews moving in.

Buy or reside? As far as I know, Roland Park never required that all buyers be members of Baltimore Country Club, really a Roland Park Company front. That in fact the screening mechanism used on Gibson Island, then and now the most exclusive place in Maryland. If Gibson Island Club rejected your membership, you could not buy or live there.

But to discuss the buy or reside question further, I have seen at least one story in the Afro-American before 1910 that reported on all the merry time black household staff were having at a party on Woodlawn, printing the exact address. I'm sure Bouton was not pleased. That added to Bouton's urge to get something in writing that barred black residency.

So explain this? Despite all this screening, a well-known Baltimore madam managed to buy a house, recently priced at more than $1 million on Somerset Court. The lady was a Lithuanian immigrant, Lutheran, and had a nice stable of girls on The Block Extended, on the east side of the Jones Falls.

It is said that Roland Park gentlemen were not below asking her talented staff to initiate their sons. They were left in good hands.
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:31 AM
 
1,161 posts, read 2,435,665 times
Reputation: 2613
Just a few comments:


Buy or reside? As far as I know, Roland Park never required that all buyers be members of Baltimore Country Club, really a Roland Park Company front. That in fact the screening mechanism used on Gibson Island, then and now the most exclusive place in Maryland. If Gibson Island Club rejected your membership, you could not buy or live there.

The BCC was founded partly with the help of the Roland Park company. It was never a requirement to be a member of the club to live in the neighborhood. Many residents actually belonged to other clubs, such as the Elkridge Club. Elkridge was slightly more "exclusive" due to its older history, although the most exclusive club was the Greenspring Valley club. BCC was more of a "professional club," popular with doctors, lawyers, merchants, but not necessarily so with proper old money Baltimore.

But to discuss the buy or reside question further, I have seen at least one story in the Afro-American before 1910 that reported on all the merry time black household staff were having at a party on Woodlawn, printing the exact address. I'm sure Bouton was not pleased. That added to Bouton's urge to get something in writing that barred black residency.

Bouton barred black homeowners. He could not have barred black residency because the class of people buying into Roland Park and surrounding neighborhoods would not have lived without their live in black help, which was a fact of life for upper middle class Baltimoreans before WWII. Whatever the terminology employed by Bouton was, it certainly would have also been understood that it didn't include black domestic help.
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