Living in Parkville (in the city)? (Baltimore, Towson: for sale, real estate market, apartment complex)

[cbrc5ed]

Hello, looks like a great forum with intelligent (well mostly ) contributors here. I'm in my mid 20's I lived in Harford County (near Bel Air specifically) for practically most of my life- and yes I still live with my parents for now. Saving up $ for a good downpayment and with the current real estate market conditions I think it's a good time to buy. As a first time buyer I like the "incentives" with the tax credits and the program through Baltimore City.

I'm considering moving to Parkville, but within the city limits. More specifically the North Harford Road area- above Northern Parkway but below Taylor Avenue, between Old Harford Rd and Harford Rd. So far it's the best area I've found that has a house the size I'm looking for in my price range and somewhat close to other activities (coming from Harford Co, I don't mind driving a bit to go shopping, etc). And it's got some nightlife with the bars along Harford Rd (such as Dead Freddies) and a quick trip over to White Marsh, Towson or even back up to Bel Air. Granted I know it's not the hippest area for young professionals like Canton or Federal Hill but I don't want that kind of lifestyle, nor could I afford those areas.

I've consulted several friends and coworkers who either live or work in the area, some live even further south in Hamilton and Lauraville. I've heard everything from 1) It's a great place to live with minimal crime with the occasional breakins or vandalism to 2) It's sketchy at night and there is gang activity. I don't expect it to be like Harford County but I don't want to be caught in the middle of a drug war either

I've driven through the area several times, in the morning, afternoon and at night on different days and personally it didn't feel that sketchy to me, I thought areas of Hamilton were worse. The neighborhood (by my observation and from 10 year old statistical data I found) looks mostly older whites, working class. The homes are smaller and older (compared to what I'm used to in Harford Co) but for the most part well maintained and decent, newer cars were parked outside.

But the 2 major things that really get me about living in the city:
1) The schools are lousy (however I don't have any kids). So if I ever have any kids, I'd either move away or send them to private schools.
2) Property Tax is high- at 2.2% it's much higher than the County. I might hold out to see if I can find a house that's zoned in the county.

Does anybody have any insight about living in the area? I'd like to hear your experiences particularly if you've lived in the area esp if you've moved from one of the suburbs. If you have no direct experience or have close family members/friends who live there, please do not speculate.

[jonjj]

I lived in Arcadia for over 10 years. It is a small neighborhood off of Walther Blvd./Harford Road that I considered along with my neighbors to feel very safe. We never even locked our doors there when we were home. (I have three dogs). But, there was never an issue of crime in the area. I think Arcadia is in the sticky at the beginning of the thread. It's an obscure neighborhood in that I lived in the city for quite awhile and didn't even know it existed until a realtor took me up there. There is also a neighborhood called Beverly Hills (by the Safeway on Harford) that is also very nice. Mayfield is a great neighborhood but a bit more expensive. Lauraville is also near there on the other side of Harford which I have heard good things about.

[Woodlands]

I would concur with jonjj...Laurelville is high on the list.. You mentioned Parkville "city" which is obvously separated from Parkville "county" by a man made boundary called the City Line. Was curious why you would choose Parkville "city" over Parkville "county"? Granted I live in the City and would encourage those who wanted to live in the City to do so..but areas that straddle the City Line where, in my opinion, there may be no discernable difference between the two areas including housing prices..seems like one would opt for the County because as you mentioned the tax rate is lower? Some areas you can tell the difference between "the City" and "the County" ..if for anything else.. the housing stock changes as you leave one for the other or there is a significant change in the neighborhood. Parkville doesnt strike me as an area that has that type of transistion from the City to the County. However; Lauralville, Mayfield, Aracadia have unique features.. access to parks, the Lake, boutique neighborhood business areas, housing stock etc.. that make them more interesting by comparison. Just my two cents.. good luck with your search....

[cbrc5ed]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

I would concur with jonjj...Laurelville is high on the list.. You mentioned Parkville "city" which is obvously separated from Parkville "county" by a man made boundary called the City Line. Was curious why you would choose Parkville "city" over Parkville "county"? Granted I live in the City and would encourage those who wanted to live in the City to do so..but areas that straddle the City Line where, in my opinion, there may be no discernable difference between the two areas including housing prices..seems like one would opt for the County because as you mentioned the tax rate is lower? Some areas you can tell the difference between "the City" and "the County" ..if for anything else.. the housing stock changes as you leave one for the other or there is a significant change in the neighborhood. Parkville doesnt strike me as an area that has that type of transistion from the City to the County. However; Lauralville, Mayfield, Aracadia have unique features.. access to parks, the Lake, boutique neighborhood business areas, housing stock etc.. that make them more interesting by comparison. Just my two cents.. good luck with your search....

I'm considering the city because alot of houses in my price range for sale are in the neighborhood between the City/County line and Northern Parkway. Though I'd prefer living in the county, as the better schools should bring better resale (even though I do not have kids) should I ever go to sell- I wouldn't mind buying in the city if the price is right.

But I'm pretty disturbed to see the property tax rates are much higher in the city. Just looking at this chart from here is shocking MD Current Tax Rates and makes me wonder why anyone would want to buy in the city especially if right on the county line.

[SIZE=2]BALTIMORE CITY 1[/SIZE]

2.268
5.67
5.67

[SIZE=2]BALTIMORE COUNTY[/SIZE]

1.1
2.75
2.75

And what do you get for these extra taxes? Better schools... better libraries.. better roads? Curious that MD147 was resurfaced from the city/county line up to about Joppa Rd but not below it...

[jonjj]

The city just completed a huge resurfacing and streetscaping project all along Harford Road. Also, I think the library system in the city is actually pretty good. There have been a ton of resurfacing and streetscaping projects occuring throughout town.

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

I would concur with jonjj...Laurelville is high on the list.. You mentioned Parkville "city" which is obvously separated from Parkville "county" by a man made boundary called the City Line. Was curious why you would choose Parkville "city" over Parkville "county"? Granted I live in the City and would encourage those who wanted to live in the City to do so..but areas that straddle the City Line where, in my opinion, there may be no discernable difference between the two areas including housing prices..seems like one would opt for the County because as you mentioned the tax rate is lower? Some areas you can tell the difference between "the City" and "the County" ..if for anything else.. the housing stock changes as you leave one for the other or there is a significant change in the neighborhood. Parkville doesnt strike me as an area that has that type of transistion from the City to the County. However; Lauralville, Mayfield, Aracadia have unique features.. access to parks, the Lake, boutique neighborhood business areas, housing stock etc.. that make them more interesting by comparison. Just my two cents.. good luck with your search....

Woodlands--I think you brought up some valid points here. I mean, Baltimore is a funny city in that the suburbs are really not that different from the city. In Detroit for example, there is such a huge difference between the burbs and the city. Here, I don't see it. I mean, leave the city for Glen Burnie???? And drive Ritchie Highway for the rest of your life living in one of those tacky neighborhoods? Or, moving to Towson to escape city life? And dealing with York Road sprawl for all eternity not to mention a very boring central core? Or how about taking a quiet drive up Pulaski or Eastern on the east side? I mean, most of the burb choices around here are downright ugly and make the city seem like paradise.

Now I understand that their taxes are lower and in some areas there is less crime. But at what price? I am sorry if I am offending anyone but if it is your purpose to escape all of the social issues of the city by moving to one of it's nearby suburban areas; you better rethink that. It ain't that much better out there.

I have a good friend who contributes on here every now and then who moved from Towson (stuck in an apartment complex with music blaring and I won't go into the rest of it) to Patterson Park. He continues to be amazed at how he found peace and quiet in the city.

[Woodlands]

Originally Posted by cbrc5ed

I'm considering the city because alot of houses in my price range for sale are in the neighborhood between the City/County line and Northern Parkway. Though I'd prefer living in the county, as the better schools should bring better resale (even though I do not have kids) should I ever go to sell- I wouldn't mind buying in the city if the price is right.

But I'm pretty disturbed to see the property tax rates are much higher in the city. Just looking at this chart from here is shocking MD Current Tax Rates and makes me wonder why anyone would want to buy in the city especially if right on the county line.

[SIZE=2]BALTIMORE CITY 1[/SIZE]

2.268
5.67
5.67

[SIZE=2]BALTIMORE COUNTY[/SIZE]

1.1
2.75
2.75

And what do you get for these extra taxes? Better schools... better libraries.. better roads? Curious that MD147 was resurfaced from the city/county line up to about Joppa Rd but not below it...

I think back in the day before the housing bust.. people where attracted to the City because the housing prices were considerably lower than the County.. that may have compensated for the higher taxes.. you still could get more house..possibly in or near popular areas with various amenities and transportation networks particuliarly if you worked in the City or even DC (i.e. next to Penn Station area). The challenge that I see now is that as the real estate market cools and prices in the County drop.. people may opt for the County based on just what you mentioned....schools, lower crime in certain sectors, and of course taxes. The City has some programs that "abate" taxes on new homes for up to five years with each year the % of the abatement decreasing until you pay the full tax burden. A good program..though some people who couldnt afford the new house got a double whammy when their 5yr ARM AND the City Tax Abatement both came due together.. doubled the mortgage payment for some.

I do think that certain neighborhoods in the City can be good for a long term investment particuliarly if you can get in now for a reasonable price and in a good solid area. If you are living in the NE, the areas mentioned earlier in this thread could be good deals but the further you get from Downtown out that way past Hamilton ....the more living in the City versus the County tilt in the County's favor if the prices are equal.. again..unless you find a great deal on a great property somewhere in between. Some challenges that I have seen.. nice home reasonably priced.. crummy workmanship once you get behind the 'window dressing' or nice home on a bad block or crummy home on a nice block.. which would be the way to go if you can manage the rehab. So definately do your research.. talk to the neighbors and get a home inspection...

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

I think back in the day before the housing bust.. people where attracted to the City because the housing prices were considerably lower than the County.. that may have compensated for the higher taxes.. you still could get more house..possibly in or near popular areas with various amenities and transportation networks particuliarly if you worked in the City or even DC (i.e. next to Penn Station area). The challenge that I see now is that as the real estate market cools and prices in the County drop.. people may opt for the County based on just what you mentioned....schools, lower crime in certain sectors, and of course taxes. The City has some programs that "abate" taxes on new homes for up to five years with each year the % of the abatement decreasing until you pay the full tax burden. A good program..though some people who couldnt afford the new house got a double whammy when their 5yr ARM AND the City Tax Abatement both came due together.. doubled the mortgage payment for some.

I do think that certain neighborhoods in the City can be good for a long term investment particuliarly if you can get in now for a reasonable price and in a good solid area. If you are living in the NE, the areas mentioned earlier in this thread could be good deals but the further you get from Downtown out that way past Hamilton ....the more living in the City versus the County tilt in the County's favor if the prices are equal.. again..unless you find a great deal on a great property somewhere in between. Some challenges that I have seen.. nice home reasonably priced.. crummy workmanship once you get behind the 'window dressing' or nice home on a bad block or crummy home on a nice block.. which would be the way to go if you can manage the rehab. So definately do your research.. talk to the neighbors and get a home inspection...

Agreed; my first place was in 21234 zip in the city lines, and looking at total costs, it ended up being much less than a home in the county after accounting for taxes and such.

Last time I looked the price/value is still biased towards the county in the 21234 zip code, and it's likely to widen further if one assumes both the city and county raise property tax rates in the upcoming years. And if you even suspect you'd have kids one day, better off on the county side.

My own experience, though, I'd rather be further away from Northern Parkway on either side of Harford road, so for that reason alone, I'd choose the county. The housing in Parkville city or county inside of 695 is identical.

And, I truly believe Parkville is going to be the gem of baltimore in 5-10 years. Once energy costs skyrocket, and traffic gets terrible, people will realize the affordability, central location, and quality smaller homes with character will make this a very desirable and much more upscale place to live. City or county, can't go wrong!

[Woodlands]

One other footnote though not HUGE.. is car insurance> For various reasons seems like the City insurance rates were/are higher than the Counties... except in some County Zips that are shared with the City. Again not a huge deal.. but something you may want to investigate as you itemize your list of expenses....

I do like how Parkville, Hamilton, Laurelville, Gardenville/Frankford.. have their own neighborhood business districts. Laurelville and Hamilton in particular are working to revitalize them. Parkville also has a very solid neighborhood business district which is a nice amenity if you live within walking distance. Granted it may not have the caliber shops of a Fells Point or Federal Hill.. but it is nice to be able to walk to places that are really "neighborhood" based and grab a beer or pic up a few odds and ends. For that reason, I agree with Trickymost that Parkville and similiar "main streets" in both the City and County will once again become viable.. as people want more walkable communities, shorter commutes, homes with character in safe neighborhoods and close to transportation, work, etc...

[cbrc5ed]

Originally Posted by trickymost

Agreed; my first place was in 21234 zip in the city lines, and looking at total costs, it ended up being much less than a home in the county after accounting for taxes and such.

Last time I looked the price/value is still biased towards the county in the 21234 zip code, and it's likely to widen further if one assumes both the city and county raise property tax rates in the upcoming years. And if you even suspect you'd have kids one day, better off on the county side.

My own experience, though, I'd rather be further away from Northern Parkway on either side of Harford road, so for that reason alone, I'd choose the county. The housing in Parkville city or county inside of 695 is identical.

And, I truly believe Parkville is going to be the gem of baltimore in 5-10 years. Once energy costs skyrocket, and traffic gets terrible, people will realize the affordability, central location, and quality smaller homes with character will make this a very desirable and much more upscale place to live. City or county, can't go wrong!

Great input. It also seems like there's alot more older people in the area haha. But given the (relatively) affordable houses in the area, and as mentioned proximity to other areas (Towson, WhiteMarsh, downtown etc) I'd suspect more younger people would start moving into the area. I personally know 2 different people my age (mid 20s) who purchased houses in Hamilton because they could "get alot more house for their money" in those areas.

I also considered the kid factor- but even if I got some girl pregnant today, it would be at least 5-6 years before that kid was in elementary school and even so it looks like the elementary school isn't bad (the middle school looks worse and the high school looks downright scary).

Originally Posted by Woodlands

One other footnote though not HUGE.. is car insurance> For various reasons seems like the City insurance rates were/are higher than the Counties... except in some County Zips that are shared with the City. Again not a huge deal.. but something you may want to investigate as you itemize your list of expenses....

I do like how Parkville, Hamilton, Laurelville, Gardenville/Frankford.. have their own neighborhood business districts. Laurelville and Hamilton in particular are working to revitalize them. Parkville also has a very solid neighborhood business district which is a nice amenity if you live within walking distance. Granted it may not have the caliber shops of a Fells Point or Federal Hill.. but it is nice to be able to walk to places that are really "neighborhood" based and grab a beer or pic up a few odds and ends. For that reason, I agree with Trickymost that Parkville and similiar "main streets" in both the City and County will once again become viable.. as people want more walkable communities, shorter commutes, homes with character in safe neighborhoods and close to transportation, work, etc...

I considered car insurance as well. I went as far as getting a quote from my insurance company and if I stay in the 21234 zipcode, even within the city limits, my car insurance only goes up like $60 a year.

I also thought about what the area might look like in 5-10 years. It will be interesting to see what happens, I really never even considered the area before. We'll see!