Baltimore looks like a ghetto, need improvement (Mount Vernon: real estate, apartments)

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by Tallybalt

Baltimore differs in that the magnitude of the bad areas can and do almost overwhelm the good areas.

I lived in Denver for a period and was given a tour of the city by a life-long resident during my first week. He drove me through a somewhat run-down part of Denver and admitted that the neighborhood was probably the city's most crime and drug-ridden area.

I just started to laugh, and I laughed and laughed. What I saw had nothing to touch on the sheer decay of large stretches of Baltimore.

So, yes, it is misleading to write off Baltimore's bad areas by saying that every city is a mix of good and bad areas. That is true, but only a handful of other cities have such extensive stretches of run-down, drug and crime ridden neighborhoods. But Baltimore's pleasant areas are very pleasant and among the most attractive neighborhoods in the country.

...as it's the SCOPE and MAGNITUDE of the poverty in Baltimore that makes it worse than most other American cities; every major city has poor areas occupying a portion of the urban area, but the percentages in Baltimore, Philly, etc ., are much higher. I'm not surprised by your reaction at the lesser sections of Denver--by comparison, they probably look like middle-class areas..I've heard similar stories of Minnesotans complaining about north Minneapolis, without realizing that Minn-St. Paul is one of the most pleasant urban areas in the country, hands down..

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by MassVt

...as it's the SCOPE and MAGNITUDE of the poverty in Baltimore that makes it worse than most other American cities; every major city has poor areas occupying a portion of the urban area, but the percentages in Baltimore, Philly, etc ., are much higher. I'm not surprised by your reaction at the lesser sections of Denver--by comparison, they probably look like middle-class areas..I've heard similar stories of Minnesotans complaining about north Minneapolis, without realizing that Minn-St. Paul is one of the most pleasant urban areas in the country, hands down..

Your opinion of Minn-St. Paul being one of the most pleasant is just that-an opinion. I happen to disagree and found the Minn-St Paul area to be a sprawling mess with little character. (Did like all the lakes though). I don't have the time to look at statistics but I don't think Baltimore's or Philly's poverty rates are much higher than most cities. I do think that Baltimore and Philly's neighborhoods are much older than most cities and because of that, they may be more run-down.

[jonjj]

Poverty rates and median income for U.S. cities, counties and states - 2007 | Data Central from The Plain Dealer - cleveland.com impact blog - Cleveland Ohio Statistics & Demographics | Data Central - cleveland.com

This web site can give you the poverty rates of cities in the states. I didn't do many but did find out a selected few:
Poverty Rates:
Baltimore-20.0
Philly-23.8
Pittsburgh-21.0
Boston-20.4
NYC-18.5
DC-16.4
I did look up Minneapolis out of curiosity: 20.4

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by jonjj

Your opinion of Minn-St. Paul being one of the most pleasant is just that-an opinion. I happen to disagree and found the Minn-St Paul area to be a sprawling mess with little character. (Did like all the lakes though). I don't have the time to look at statistics but I don't think Baltimore's or Philly's poverty rates are much higher than most cities. I do think that Baltimore and Philly's neighborhoods are much older than most cities and because of that, they may be more run-down.

.. but apparently one shared by quite a few people.

If "character" means dilapidated, boarded-up, treeless rowhouse neighborhoods, then I'll take "sprawling mess" every time....

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by MassVt

.. but apparently one shared by quite a few people.

If "character" means dilapidated, boarded-up, treeless rowhouse neighborhoods, then I'll take "sprawling mess" every time....

Hey, that's why God made the Olive Garden---go figure!

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by MassVt

.. but apparently one shared by quite a few people.

If "character" means dilapidated, boarded-up, treeless rowhouse neighborhoods, then I'll take "sprawling mess" every time....

treeless rowhouse neighborhoods---Hey, I saw those in London. Loved em!

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by jonjj

Poverty rates and median income for U.S. cities, counties and states - 2007 | Data Central from The Plain Dealer - cleveland.com impact blog - Cleveland Ohio Statistics & Demographics | Data Central - cleveland.com

This web site can give you the poverty rates of cities in the states. I didn't do many but did find out a selected few:
Poverty Rates:
Baltimore-20.0
Philly-23.8
Pittsburgh-21.0
Boston-20.4
NYC-18.5
DC-16.4
I did look up Minneapolis out of curiosity: 20.4

..Minneapolis ( and Boston) are in MUCH better shape than Baltimore, a conclusion anyone could come to if he/she even visited these cities for a few hours...

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by jonjj

treeless rowhouse neighborhoods---Hey, I saw those in London. Loved em!

..that you left out the "boarded-up, dilapidated " parts...and when talking about Baltimore, it's pretty hard to do that..

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by MassVt

..Minneapolis ( and Boston) are in MUCH better shape than Baltimore, a conclusion anyone could come to if he/she even visited these cities for a few hours...

I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat thing with you. You are bringing up valid points. I thank you for sharing those. I happen to have lived in Boston for a little over three years before moving to Baltimore and agree with you: It's in much better shape. It has better transit, it's more walkable, it has more retail, it's cleaner. I could go on. In fact, I still love Boston more than Baltimore (crying as I type).
But, what I didn't like about Boston was living poor making decent money. I lived in a small place in the south end when it wasn't the way it is now!

I happen to like Baltimore (you may have guessed that). I think it likely you don't care for Baltimore (you're right). I'll leave it at that.

In terms of Minneapolis, I can only say that after spending some time there, Milwaukee looked really nice!

[MassVt]

..and by the way, I lived in WI for a while, and I enjoyed Milwaukee very much.

I like older cities; I live in an ancient one (Cambridge); Albany, Portland are OK, and some sections of Philly are fine, but they are the exception..you must have at least liked St. Paul a little..

My hope is that Baltimore, when tearing down uninhabited blocks of the city, will offer some other type of housing other than rowhouses to replace them.A little grass, some trees here and there, and even a small backyard that is not filled with a broken-down car or garbage, would do a great deal to improve the physical appearance of the city. Simply construct townhouses , attached, but with some green spaces separating them, would do wonders. But I don't know if this is going to happen.

Boston isn't Nirvana; it is pretty expensive to live here, and it's not necessarily the most welcoming of places, but it has managed to at least keep up a presentable front to the world, and I hope others will do the same, too.