Commute from Roland Park/Towson to DC? (Baltimore: for sale, violent crime)

[Tallybalt]

Barante, I live in Roland Park and several of the things you highlighted are news to me. While the RPCL and Roads and Maintenance does an excellent job helping to maintain the architectural heritage of the neighborhood, you might be confusing the RPCL with the Homeland Association, which has much stricter neighborhood covenants.

There are people in Roland Park who commute to Washington. Most drive from RP to the Penn station and park in the garage (ten minutes' drive at 5 in the morning), and take the train. I even briefly commuted from Roland Park to Georgetown and it was just under two hours door to door, but that involved a metro transfer and a ten minute walk from Foggy Bottom to Georgetown. Her husband could do the commute in 90 minutes. If time is of essence then living in Guilford could shave 5-10 minutes from the drive to Penn Station.

As for living in Ellicott City and going to school in Roland Park: there are plenty of families in Howard County who send children to private schools in Baltimore, and even Towson. A private bus shuttles kids back and forth, and if one knows the shortcuts through Baltimore (Forest Park Avenue to Northern Parkway), you can avoid the Baltimore Beltway. But will be very much the rat race.

An option is to live in Howard County and send the children to McDonogh, which would be closer by. McDonogh has its own buses that service Howard County. But the commute from Howard County to central DC is not going to be noticeably shorter than from Baltimore.

As for bargains...compared to peak prices of 2006-7, there are several excellent buys in Roland Park in the 500-600K price range. But your point about the maintenance requirements of the older houses is one that needs to be taken seriously by anyone looking to buy in Roland Park. But it is a neighborhood whose residents love their community and whose houses are labors of love.

Originally Posted by barante

You really need to sort out things for yourself and your family. At this point you are shadow-boxing.
Here are some of my last reflections: Without knowing you or your resources, I don't think Roland Park is what you need. You may need Roland Park area schools but not the expensive housing which, being in some cases more than a century old, has all kinds of very expensive maintenance issues. There are no bargains in Roland Park even now (unless you can find a wreck, which is unlikely). Also note that in addition to regular city taxes, Roland Park (and I am talking about the covenanted Roland Park) levies an extra assessment each year on homeowners. The convenanted Roland Park also has very strict rules that govern everything that goes on in that community, including the number of pets allowed.
A rent-to-buy option may be possible but it is wrought with problems that require a good lawyer to negotiate.
There are plenty of cheaper substitutes, ranging from Medfield (ask medfieldbum) to Keswick to Hampden. But this being Baltimore, they are mostly rowhouses.
In general, if Roland Park area schools are that important to you only two other considerations should be important:
1. A place to live near the schools.
2. Accessibility to the train to Washington since your husband does not like to drive (good for him!)
Since you don't know much about Baltimore, people will try to sell you this or that neighborhood for this or that reason. Be very careful. This major move will make you either happy or totally unhappy. It's your life but know what you are getting into. Stop dreaming about farms and estates, just smell the flowers and listen to the birds in the park. And read the fine print and reread and reread it again with the assistance of some well-versed in real estate law.

[barante]

http://rolandpark.org/civicleague_do...enantPlat2.pdf

[Tallybalt]

I have a copy of that covenant around here somewhere, but not every particular item is studiously obeyed. Houses have been modified over the years, even converted into apartments, and I know a few families with more than three pets!

Homeland is well-known for having extremely strict covenants, which are much more strictly enforced than in Roland Park.

Originally Posted by barante

http://rolandpark.org/civicleague_do...enantPlat2.pdf

[Tom Lennox 70]

Beebee, it will be a ridiculous commute. Yes more and more people are doing this and its totally changing the culture of the Baltimore region as DC people move in as well as newcomers with jobs in DC. Yes your husband will probably be stressed, everyone I know who would do that situation would be. I am in grad school and have a few friends who commutted from downtown Baltimore to the FDA in College Park, not even in the city, and they were stressed otu with the traffic on Interstate 95 and the BW Parkway and also the unreliability of MARC service, as well as the dangers of riding the LIght Rail and MTA buses. If you do insist on living in Baltimore and doing that commute, I'd suggest taking the MARC train to Greenbelt or College Park and getting on the Metro from there.

Also a one hour commute is not always the same. I commuted 1 hour on public transportation from Rockville before I moved to Baltimore for a summer job in downtown DC. Last year as part of my school program I commuted one hour one way each day for 2 weeks from Cambridge to Salisbury on the Eastern Shore and it felt like a breeze. Driving across farmlands and marshes is different than packed in a train with equally burned out people in suits and briefcases. As for 90 minutes, I would take it regardless of where, but Lansing, Michigan driving would still be preferrable to public transport on the East Coast.

I would consider Frederick County, MD, especially the area around Urbana, anything including and south of the city of Frederick. Places more to the west in Frederick COunty like Brunswick and Point of ROcks also have commuter train service to Washington. And in the outlying counties, you do not need to send your kids to an elite prep school for them to get a decent education, unless I guess you are one of them parents for which anything less than an Ivy League school is considered not good enough. I personally can't wait to finish school and move to the Eastern Shore or somewhere south of Maryland and just have an easy drive to work every day.

[beebelle]

Thanks for all your opinions. DH thinks he can handle the commute. I have my doubts.... But jobs don't last forever, and he may find another job in Baltimore eventually.

BTW, we're old house people, and we love those Roland Park houses. We've never lived in a house (or apartment) built after 1929.

No, T L 70, we are not elitist. Our children have certain needs that require private schools at this point. It would be nice to have good public schools to use in the future, which is NOT the case in Roland Park (except for the elementary school, from what I understand).

It's all about money, T L 70. If we could afford to live in DC, we would. No one in their right mind would choose to commute 90 minutes each way. But a train commute is by far easier than a car commute. DH used to commute to Manhattan, 90 minutes each way, mostly by train, and it was OK. Actually in NY, that's a typical commute.

DH's job will be there for a while, so we have time to think things through and examine all our options.

Are there any other old house neighborhoods outside Baltimore (south) that have good schools? Ellicott City seems to have some old (ie pre WWII) houses, but not a lot. Baltimore is an old-house lover's paradise. It's a shame the schools are so bad. I could live in any of hundreds (thousands??) of houses in Baltimore.

[Tallybalt]

You may want to look at Catonsville. It is a Baltimore County suburb bordering Baltimore City on the southwest side, handy for both I-95 and the commuter trains. Catonsville has a wide range of houses and actually resembles a small town rather than a proper suburb, and there are some wonderful older houses in the community.

Another option in Baltimore City and not far from Catonsville is Ten Hills.

If you think you can make Roland Park work for you, go for it. I agree that a train commute isn't onerous, especially to one used to commuting into NYC.

Originally Posted by beebelle

Thanks for all your opinions. DH thinks he can handle the commute. I have my doubts.... But jobs don't last forever, and he may find another job in Baltimore eventually.

BTW, we're old house people, and we love those Roland Park houses. We've never lived in a house (or apartment) built after 1929.

No, T L 70, we are not elitist. Our children have certain needs that require private schools at this point. It would be nice to have good public schools to use in the future, which is NOT the case in Roland Park (except for the elementary school, from what I understand).

It's all about money, T L 70. If we could afford to live in DC, we would. No one in their right mind would choose to commute 90 minutes each way. But a train commute is by far easier than a car commute. DH used to commute to Manhattan, 90 minutes each way, mostly by train, and it was OK. Actually in NY, that's a typical commute.

DH's job will be there for a while, so we have time to think things through and examine all our options.

Are there any other old house neighborhoods outside Baltimore (south) that have good schools? Ellicott City seems to have some old (ie pre WWII) houses, but not a lot. Baltimore is an old-house lover's paradise. It's a shame the schools are so bad. I could live in any of hundreds (thousands??) of houses in Baltimore.

[Woodlands]

I agree with sobo.. I do this same commute (I know insane right) but I usually drive and park just north of Penn in one of the surface lots for $8 OR on the nicer more adventurous days.. I park at North Ave Light Rail.. right off 83 and either walk (less than 10 min) or ride the 13 bus to Charles Street then finish my with a 5 min walk to Penn. The North Ave walk, as scary as it may sound, is not bad.. you are more at risk with crazy baltimore drivers than anyone on the sidewalk.. Here again, it depend on your comfort level because you can certainly pass a few characters. But with MICA and Station North expanding.. you are in good company with students, artists and other commuters most of the time..particuliarly once you get to Charles Street.

Sometimes I also drive to New Carrollton to catch the Orange Line.. I usually leave at about 6:45am and routinely pull into New Carrollton between 7:30 and 7:45. I usually shoot down 83 to Maryland Ave down through town out Russell Street to I-95. Believe it or not at that time of the morning traffic is moving fairly well particuliarly if you get all green lights. Most of the traffic is still working its way into the city and on 95 you are going against the grain until you reach rt 32 and below....Traffic is heavy but it moves.. it bottles up only if there is a wreck and a now a little around the ICC construction site. I ONLY do this if I am working late because as others have mentioned.. driving out at 5pm to about 8pm would be more challenging than driving in.

The Camden Line would be a nice alternative for your DC to Baltimore return trip.. particuliarly if you parked at North Ave or Mt. Washington. You can change from the Camden Line directly on to the Light Rail at Camden Yards.. So i go down on the Penn.. come back on the 551pm Camden Line "express". There is also an "express" from DC to Baltimore on the Penn Line. It leaves at 510pm and gets into Baltimore at 600pm only making two stops on the way....So in terms of the commute....Welcome to Hell.. hope you are just visiting

[kaydeb]

beebee,
just came upon this post, and had to comment.

BEEN THERE/DONE THAT/HAVE THE T-SHIRT/SCARS TO PROVE IT.

D-O-N-T D-O I-T!!!!!!!

my experience is just mine, but it's been mirrored by so many other couples i know.

we lived in homeland. dh worked in D.C. our children went to Roland Park and Boys Latin. DH had a 9-5 at one of the alphabet agencies near the white house, which in reality, meant he left the house at 6:15 a.m. and got home a little after 7 p.m.

he would leave the house, drop down Charles Street to get to Penn Station, take the Marc train to D.C. he left at 6:15 so as to be in his office by 8:15-ish. it was only a 15 minute drive from home to Penn Station, but if there was any slowdown, an accident, parking difficulties, etc., then he would miss the 6:35 train and would have to wait for the 7:05 train.

bottom line: with the children, he was NEVER home when they got home from school. i had to handle dinner/homework/after-school activities all my self. and, 2 or 3 nights a week when he got home, we weren't! the kids were in boy scouts and girl scouts, sports, music lessons, etc.

I repeat: Bottom Line:

...you will shoulder all the family childcare responsibilities

...as your husband moves up the company ladder, his responsibilities will increase, which means more demands on his time.

...the private schools mentioned are now in the $20,000 per year tuition range, plus the incidentals. If your budget allows for $50k per year for education, great. if it's going to strain your budget, then there will be no wiggle room for your husband to find another job to be closer to home, as you will become SLAVES to paying that tuition.

while many families have lived like this, it takes its toll.

try looking in the Crofton area of Maryland, northeast of DC. it still has a rural feel, housing is more affordable, and the public schools aren't that bad. if you're still looking at private schools, there might be some in annapolis that would suit you. annapolis is about 10-15 miles from crofton.

if you're willing to check out D.C., try looking at the area just east of Capital Hill. There's been a revitalization of that area by young families. look on the D.C. board here for more information on this area.

kaydeb

[barante]

My wife and I took the 8:10 a.m. MARC from Penn Station to Union Station yesterday. A great experience, a terrific beginning for a touristy day. It was sunny and nice. Met two old friends on the train, a New York Times and Washington Post reporter respectively.
This is how it can be on a good day. But the bad days are hair-raising, particularly when you are stranded and have an important appointment. Although that did not happen often, I had far too many of those when I commuted to D.C. Also, although we left early for the station yesterday, all the road construction tensed me up.
The ride itself was a bargain: $7 roundtrip for senior citizens. Can't beat that. But parking at the MARC garage was $14.
Dreams and reality.

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by kaydeb

beebee,
just came upon this post, and had to comment.

BEEN THERE/DONE THAT/HAVE THE T-SHIRT/SCARS TO PROVE IT.

D-O-N-T D-O I-T!!!!!!!

my experience is just mine, but it's been mirrored by so many other couples i know.

we lived in homeland. dh worked in D.C. our children went to Roland Park and Boys Latin. DH had a 9-5 at one of the alphabet agencies near the white house, which in reality, meant he left the house at 6:15 a.m. and got home a little after 7 p.m.

he would leave the house, drop down Charles Street to get to Penn Station, take the Marc train to D.C. he left at 6:15 so as to be in his office by 8:15-ish. it was only a 15 minute drive from home to Penn Station, but if there was any slowdown, an accident, parking difficulties, etc., then he would miss the 6:35 train and would have to wait for the 7:05 train.

bottom line: with the children, he was NEVER home when they got home from school. i had to handle dinner/homework/after-school activities all my self. and, 2 or 3 nights a week when he got home, we weren't! the kids were in boy scouts and girl scouts, sports, music lessons, etc.

I repeat: Bottom Line:

...you will shoulder all the family childcare responsibilities

...as your husband moves up the company ladder, his responsibilities will increase, which means more demands on his time.

...the private schools mentioned are now in the $20,000 per year tuition range, plus the incidentals. If your budget allows for $50k per year for education, great. if it's going to strain your budget, then there will be no wiggle room for your husband to find another job to be closer to home, as you will become SLAVES to paying that tuition.

while many families have lived like this, it takes its toll.

try looking in the Crofton area of Maryland, northeast of DC. it still has a rural feel, housing is more affordable, and the public schools aren't that bad. if you're still looking at private schools, there might be some in annapolis that would suit you. annapolis is about 10-15 miles from crofton.

if you're willing to check out D.C., try looking at the area just east of Capital Hill. There's been a revitalization of that area by young families. look on the D.C. board here for more information on this area.

kaydeb

Excellent post!

It's an unfortunate reality, IMO, that the economic growth metropolitan areas of the 21st century are the ones where life will require compromises in exchange for a high wage job with some degree of stability.

Most folks I know with kids and a commute in the baltimore/dc area fantasize about moving someplace like Austin TX or Madison WI or maybe their own hometowns, where a terrible commute in traffic means 45 minutes tops and where the cost of living means if you had the same job, you could afford a nice house and a better quality of life (things like private school) on a single salary.

Personally, I'm hoping the swine flu this winter is disruptive to business (and not terribly fatal to people). The technology infrastructure to enable a remote and disparate workforce is very mature, and all we need is a push to get all employers to realize the benefits. Once a shift towards remote work gets institutionalized for all the benefits (more time for work, less costs shouldered by companies as far as electricity, office space, etc) maybe the roads will become better and we'll have some sort of parity with on the road jobs vs telecommute jobs.