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The Northern District has seen a spike in crime apparently over the last few months with a decided uptick in Guilford.
The new Major of the Northern District indicated that she thought that the recession absolutely had something to do with the burglaries.
She also believed that after the last hurricane, there were new faces in Guilford employed to assist with tree removal and that one or more of these contractors may have seen an opportunity.
She has been very aggressive on patrolling and caught an astonishingly large number of burglars recently -- more than she had ever heard of catching in her entire professional life.
She also indicated that many of the houses targeted had alarms -- which were not set.
Historically, Guilford has not been "crime ridden." My family has lived in Guilford since 1975. Over the years, residents will occasionally see a spike -- usually due to one or two individuals committing a rash of crimes after having just been let out of prison for related offences. He is caught and then things return to normal.
In recent years, the Guilford Association has used crime data to track activity in Guilford and also to compare Guilford with Homeland and Roland Park. Surprisingly, Guilford experienced fewer incidents than our peers. Why? The only real difference between those communities is the Guilford Security Patrol.
Some residents in Guilford do not pay for this service -- feeling that there is no point. But the Major at a recent meeting said in her opinion, the security patrol car served as an extra eyes and ears on the ground -- especially important when the police patrol car was pulled away to respond to a more urgent call elsewhere in the city (this happens all the time). My family elects to do our part and pay the non-mandatory Guilford Security Patrol fee. It just seems wrong to have a few people absorb the entire financial burden of extra security for the neighborhood.
I was interested in looking up crime in Guilford prior to 1975, when my own family first purchased a home in the community. I was astonished at what I found -- articles on ProQuest (available through Enoch Pratt Free Library's website if you have a current library card) over the years from the 1970s on back which honestly read like something written yesterday "Rash of Crime in Guilford Sets Community on Edge" followed by "Career Criminal Caught by Officer on Rounds -- Neighborhood Breathes Sigh of Relief" (some variation of this over and over). The crimes were almost never violent -- 99% or more were home burglaries just like today.
I kept going back in time to find when these occasional burglaries first started. I found articles in the 1930s then 1922 then in 1919. The neighborhood was originally the Abell Estate -- subdivided into the current approximately 800 homes in 1913. And guess what? There was an article dating to 1912 -- before Guilford had even been subdivided -- describing a robbery of the Abell Estate! Mrs. Abell had been robbed of some of her jewelry if memory serves.
I think my takeaway from this voyage back in time is that thieves have always targeted Guilford (and Roland Park and Homeland etc.) -- even before it was Guilford -- because thieves go wherever the things they want to steal are located and Guilford is by and large a well-to-do community with well-appointed homes. We also feel safe here and so tend to be very trusting and not be as vigilent at times as we should be.
I understand from comments made by the Northern District representatives in previous years that Guilford (unless in the middle of a rash of incidents) is off the charts safe -- safer than most other places in Baltimore City and even many places in the county (which surprised me).
Anecdotally, I have friends in the county who live way out almost to Harford County on a nice suburban road with three other tidy houses nearby -- they were robbed. I was shocked but she wasn't. It happens she said more than you might think.
Gonegardenin, thanks for the informative posts. I agree that the crime fears in Guilford seem to be overblown. However the schools are a big problem. I've noticed walking around Guilford that there seem to be very few children in the neighborhood. The parks, such as Sherwood Gardens, lack playgrounds and picnic tables, and as a result they seem more appropriate for adults and dogs than children. The neighborhood doesn't come across as a good place for young families, which is a shame considering all of the gorgeous family-sized houses there.
On the other hand, if you were planning to send your kids to private school and don't mind the more adult atmosphere of the community, you can get a great deal on a home in Guilford. As far as I can tell, the public schools are a bigger factor than crime in explaining why homes in Guilford are so cheap relative to comparable homes in Homeland and Roland Park.
It's misleading to claim that Guilford homes are "so cheap relative to comparable homes in Homeland and Roland Park." Traditionally Guilford has been more expensive than Homeland partly because the houses are larger on average. People have paid top dollar for a prime Homeland house in a prime Homeland but Guilford has had many more sales in the 1+ million bracket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSock
Gonegardenin, thanks for the informative posts. I agree that the crime fears in Guilford seem to be overblown. However the schools are a big problem. I've noticed walking around Guilford that there seem to be very few children in the neighborhood. The parks, such as Sherwood Gardens, lack playgrounds and picnic tables, and as a result they seem more appropriate for adults and dogs than children. The neighborhood doesn't come across as a good place for young families, which is a shame considering all of the gorgeous family-sized houses there.
On the other hand, if you were planning to send your kids to private school and don't mind the more adult atmosphere of the community, you can get a great deal on a home in Guilford. As far as I can tell, the public schools are a bigger factor than crime in explaining why homes in Guilford are so cheap relative to comparable homes in Homeland and Roland Park.
It's misleading to claim that Guilford homes are "so cheap relative to comparable homes in Homeland and Roland Park." Traditionally Guilford has been more expensive than Homeland partly because the houses are larger on average. People have paid top dollar for a prime Homeland house in a prime Homeland but Guilford has had many more sales in the 1+ million bracket.
That's why I used the word "comparable". Most homes in Homeland (especially on the west side) go for more than $200 per square foot. Most homes in Guilford sell for well less than $200 per square foot, with some close to $100. This is true for both Guilford mansions and more moderately sized homes that are similar to those found in Homeland.
I'm not sure why Guilford receives such a discount relative to Homeland. At first I thought it was the schools, but then you pointed out that east Homeland doesn't seem to receive as large of a discount. So maybe it is the perceived crime? I'm curious as to what other people think.
Good thread - wonder if this how the market reflects the prospective tax burden on a buyer given the relative difference in sizes for a Guilford house vs. typical Homeland given that the typical buyer is somewhat school district agnostic (vs. Roland Park)...or maybe this is just a factor of much bigger homes (in general) in Guilford vs. smaller housing stock in Homeland (>3000SF is quite hard to find) and the absolute $ ceiling for homes in Baltimore City. Need to noodle on this a bit.
Also, maybe the $ "premium" for Homeland reflects relative proximity to private school choices (even if these are private) vs. Guilford: Gilman, Friends, Bryn Mawr, RPCS.
I do agree with prior poster's comment on dearth of kids in Guilford; quite the opposite in Homeland.
mass_biker, do you know if more of the new families moving into Homeland are sending their kids to RPEMS? There have been stories in recent years about capacity problems at that school.
Maybe Homeland is benefiting from network effects at this point: young families want to live near other young families, so they start reading threads like the ones on this site and determine that Homeland is the place to be.
Bluesock: I believe the part of Homeland that is zoned for RPEMS is west of the Lakes. East of the Lakes is not in the RPEMS zone. However, east of the Lakes is the new Tunbridge Charter School that is getting some buzz. Tunbridge Charter is new, but apparently quite popular.
Not sure about new arrivals to Homeland and school choice. Anecdotally, it seems that most folks I see send their kids to one of the many private/parochial options that are a short drive away; unlike RP, there's only a small piece of Homeland that is zoned for RPEMS.
So when you look at the many private elementary/middle school choices that are close by as well as some very good preschool options, there is some truth to your notion of a "network effect".
One thing for sure - most of the new additions I see in the neighborhood are younger families with kids.
If you have any specific questions feel free to pm me.
BlueSock, you are very welcome. Your questions about raising children in Guilford are all good ones.
I am surprised that you did not, on previous visits, see many children. When the weather is nice and the children are not in school (weekends, when camp and school lets out) the parks and sidewalks on many streets are covered with kids on bikes and scooters. But this varies block by block. Many of our houses sit on larger lots than in other communities so it is possible to have as few as five houses on a street. If those children on the block have grown up leaving their empty nester parents at home -- the block is more quiet. My block has quite a few elementary school children because several empty nesters moved out (or passed away) and young families moved in.
When the tulips emerge in Sherwood Gardens so do the people -- kind of like bears coming out of their semi-hibernation after a long winter. There are so many kids you can't even begin to count them all. The children have a favorite tree for climbing there. But you are correct, Sherwood Gardens is for strolling, picnic hampers, painting, taking photographs, smelling flowers, hide and seek and the occasional game of duck duck goose -- there is no play equipment.
For play equipment, we take the children to Linkwood Park -- a really great playground right on the edge of Guilford. Guilford residents can walk (or, if you are feeling lazy, drive) to Linkwood Park and on beautiful days Linkwood Park is hopping. Linkwood Park is wonderful because the equipment is really nice and new but there are tons of trees as well as lots of grass for shade and a picnic lunch during the height of summer.
For wintery days, when there is a nice layer of snow, Guilford residents take their children to Sunken Park for a bit of sledding fun. Sunken Park is another one of Guilford's private parks.
And for when your children finally talk you into getting a dog -- you take the dog to Gateway Park (also known informally as the Dog Park). Gateway Park is a large park, also owned by Guilford where dog owners congregate and let the dogs play.
Guilford also has another small park many people (even Guilford residents) don't know about -- Little Park. And you can always do what so many Guilford parents do -- skip the park and go for a walk or bike ride with the kids along Guilford's lovely curving roads -- all designed just after the turn of the century by famed landscape architectural team -- the Olmsted Brothers. My own daughter likes to go "exploring" with a nature checklist (one red flower, a squirrel etc).
I wish I could also say something about Roland Park and Homeland regarding their parks but I am not as familiar. Most (not Plat I) of Roland Park was laid out by the Olmsted Brothers was was all of Homeland I believe. Roland Park has wonderful (now fully restored) walkways and paths. Homeland has a lovely lake. All three communities are teeming with children.
Schools are indeed an issue for many people -- especially if I may say transplants to Baltimore for whom private education seems alien. The truth is, that in this area it is more common than not for educated upper middle and upper income people to send their children to private schools -- whether they live in Baltimore City or not. Residents of Guilford, Homeland and Roland Park have been sending their children to private schools from the earliest days by choice -- not as a reaction to inadequate public school offerings. And these schools are amazing. Friends School, Calvert, Bryn Mawr, Gilman, Roland Park Country School -- and more.
The funny thing is that these private schools in Baltimore City are not filled up entirely with students from Baltimore City -- many are driven in by their parents from the county! Also, I have many neighbors here in Guilford who send their kids to wonderful private schools -- in the county (McDonough etc.)! Indeed the McDonough bus stops each morning to pick up the Guilford kids just one house down from me.
My own husband was raised in Houston and had always attended public schools. He was adamant that no child of his would attend a private school. He told me it was the craziest thing he ever heard of. I didn't sweat it because I knew what he did not -- all of his coworkers, all of his neighbors, and every single one of his friends was sending their kids to private school. When it came time to visit private schools he knew it was a given. He visited one school with me and was blown away. Send them wherever you want he said -- if they are all as good as that I don't think we can go wrong. I thought maybe it was the warm teachers, lack of metal detectors and blaring announcements that won him over. Later he told me all that was wonderful but he especially liked that he didn't see one kid sitting alone at lunch.
I can also say the Roland Park Elementary Middle School is supposed to be an excellent public school option -- an award-winning school locally and nationally. RPEMS is located opposite the Roland Park branch of the Enoch Pratt Free Library -- now renovated and expanded. Technically, a portion of Guilford is zoned for RPEMS but I do not know where the boundary falls. It would not surprise me to learn that there are some capacity issues or that there is a potential capacity issue as these communities are filled with young children.
Other great non-private options include some of the charter schools that have been popping up. I have heard some really interesting things but am not well-informed on the topic so won't get specific.
As for the relative costs of Guilford homes, I tend to agree with others that all of these communities have a range of housing options from rowhouses to really large 10,000 sq ft mansions. A casual look at what has sold recently could indeed be misleading.
Regarding Baltimore City/County housing costs. You will pay more taxes in Baltimore City (in some cases almost double). However, realize that you will likely pay more money for a good sized house on a good sized lot in a better neighborhood in the County. A couple of houses in Guilford changed hands in the last two years -- each selling for more a bit more than $1 million. These houses in the County in say Greenspring Valley or a comparable area would have sold for closer to $2 million. So it really is a trade off. I hope this is helpful to someone.
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$/SF Homeland vs Guilford
