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Sorry to rain on your parade but I have been to hundreds of Mets and Yankee games. My family has boxes for both and my eyes don't lie. Just as I know that Gary Carter was a much better catcher than Mike Piazza. Posada is much better than the numbers you are providing and if you take the last few years into consideration as well, the tandem of Posada, Molina, and even Cervelli; together were probably one of he top defensive units in all of baseball.
No parade, and definitely no rain.
You're discussion style as been quite predictable
1) Posada is good at throwing out runners
No he's not. Look
2) Well, he's been good lately at throwing out runners
No he hasn't. Look
3) Well, I've seen him play, and he's good. Let's see your fancy dancy numbers take that away from me.
Ok
Tom Tango has kept the fan scouting report. I'll let him explain it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Tango
Baseball's fans are very perceptive. Take a large group of them, and they can pick out the final standings with the best of them. They can forecast the performance of players as well as those guys with rather sophisticated forecasting engines. Bill James, in one of his later Abstracts, had the fans vote in for the ranking of the best to worst players by position. And they did a darn good job.
There is an enormous amount of untapped knowledge here. There are 70 million fans at MLB parks every year, and a whole lot more watching the games on television.
What I would like to do now is tap that pool of talent. I want you to tell me what your eyes see. I want you to tell me how good or bad a fielder is. Go down, and start selecting the team(s) that you watch all the time. For any player that you've seen play in at least 10 games in 2010, I want you to judge his performance in 7 specific fielding categories.
Here are the results of the fan scouting report for Jorge Posada
On a scale of 1 (poor) to 5 (great)
*click the year to see the full results
Why would you want a catcher whose overall value is less than another catcher's, simply because of the distribution of the contributions?
You would assemble a weaker team by choosing balance over total talent. . A stick consisting of one section three feet long, and one section six feet long, is longer than a stick made up of two four foot long sections. Yet this point eludes your understanding.
And you call me an idiot.
I shall consider the source.
It has been proven time and time again and especially by my Yankees in the 80's that superstars don't necessarily get you far but a good balance does. Guys like O'Neill, Tino, Brosius, Charlie Hayes, Posada, Girardi, etc... are what made us win in the late 90's to early 00's not a one sided flop like a Piazza.
Please lets be realistic and honest here----Jorge Posada has had a fine career and has been an intregal piece for the Yankees for quite a few years-----hall of famer??? No.
Playing in New York for a long time allows the hype machine to prep a player for hall of fame consideration. The Yankees had several fine players in the 90s and early 2000s who just dont quite get into Cooperstown. Bernie Williams, Paul Oneil, and now Posada are all going to go down as great yankees but probably not hall of famers.
New York hype machine always pushes Yank and Mets star for the HOF-----Roger Repoz, Joe Pepitone, and Art Shamsky still on the ballot???
Look, I like Posada---fine player---good guy---great yankee----hall of famer---not.
Please lets be realistic and honest here----Jorge Posada has had a fine career and has been an intregal piece for the Yankees for quite a few years-----hall of famer??? No.
Playing in New York for a long time allows the hype machine to prep a player for hall of fame consideration. The Yankees had several fine players in the 90s and early 2000s who just dont quite get into Cooperstown. Bernie Williams, Paul Oneil, and now Posada are all going to go down as great yankees but probably not hall of famers.
New York hype machine always pushes Yank and Mets star for the HOF-----Roger Repoz, Joe Pepitone, and Art Shamsky still on the ballot???
Look, I like Posada---fine player---good guy---great yankee----hall of famer---not.
Posada is a lot different than those guys that you mention, and is almost certainly a hall of famer (but poor defensive catcher )
Paul O'Niel had 5367 plate appearances as a Yankee, a 123 RC+ (like OPS+ but a better measure of offense) and 3.17 WAR per 600 plate appearances.
Bernie Williams had 9053 at bats as a Yankee, a 128 OPS+, and 3.17 WAR / 600 PA.
Posada has 6763 plate appearances as a Yankee, 127 RC+, and 4.60 WAR / 600 PA.
Posada is a lot different than those guys that you mention, and is almost certainly a hall of famer (but poor defensive catcher )
Paul O'Niel had 5367 plate appearances as a Yankee, a 123 RC+ (like OPS+ but a better measure of offense) and 3.17 WAR per 600 plate appearances.
Bernie Williams had 9053 at bats as a Yankee, a 128 OPS+, and 3.17 WAR / 600 PA.
Posada has 6763 plate appearances as a Yankee, 127 RC+, and 4.60 WAR / 600 PA.
Posada is a much better, Hall of Fame, player
So now the criteria for HoF is to be compared with other Yankees?
For whatever it is worth (relative to the argument about Jorge Posada's defensive abilities), Posada just had a passed ball that allowed the Twins to score a run in ALDS Game 1.
So now the criteria for HoF is to be compared with other Yankees?
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIP72
For whatever it is worth (relative to the argument about Jorge Posada's defensive abilities), Posada just had a passed ball that allowed the Twins to score a run in ALDS Game 1.
Last weekend, Jorge Posada said that if the Yankees wanted him to be the designated hitter in 2011, he wanted to hear it from them.
So they told him.
...
Posada struggled defensively toward the end of the season, as opposing teams ran on him at will throughout September. With Montero showing signs of improvement at Triple-A last season, the Yankees believe the powerful prospect - he'll turn 21 later this month - is already a better defender than Posada, making their decision to give him a shot at the job an easy one.
I haven't heard anyone say that Montero is a GOOD defensive player. Just that he might be better than Posada
I haven't heard anyone say that Montero is a GOOD defensive player. Just that he might be better than Posada
Word is that he is average but with a solid bat. We also have another solid hitting catcher in the minors but the name has slipped my mind right now. Because of this they are trying to figure out where to put these guys. Cervelli might wind up getting full time behind the plate in the mean time as Posada takes over at DH. We finally made a good decision with Johnson and let him go but don't be surprised if we try to get Matsui or Damon back if we can get them cheap also as possible DH's and backups for the field. Only if it's the right price!
I'd personally like to see him as a Yankees manager....
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