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Old 12-15-2010, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
11,231 posts, read 7,313,552 times
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This is anecdotal rather than scientific, but I carry the impression that the bigger the hype when some sort of dream team or dream staff is assembled. the less likely it that the players will live up to the clabber jabber.

The phenomena has twice struck Bay Area teams in my fan life. The first time was between the Giants '78 and '79 seasons. The '78 team won 89 games and had been a surprise contender, the first time that they had been in the race since their division title in '71. Great things were predicted for the future of the team on the basis of the athletic ferocity of their starting pitching. That year the Giants had gotten great performances from Bob Knepper, Vida Blue, John "The Count" Montefusco, Ed Halicki and Jim Barr. None were older than 30, and they had produced a collective 20 WAR. All were returning save Barr, who was the oldest, so the future was rosey according to all oraculations. The rotation made the cover of Sports Illustrated pre season preview magazine in '79 and most of the magazines were predicting a Giants division title.

So naturally the '79 team won 71 games and was never in the chase. Blue's ERA inflated to plus 5 and he was traded before the year was out. The four aces combined with Ed Whitson who had replaced Halicki, to generate a collective 1.7 WAR.

Despite the miserable misfire of the above enthusiasm, the entire dynamic, right down to the cover of Sports Illustrated, was repeated for the A's starting rotation after the 1980 season. Mike Norris, Rick Langford, Matt Keogh, Steve McCatty and Brian Kingman all pitched more than 200 innings each, Langford hurled 290 with 28 complete games, Norris 284 with 24 complete games. Collectively the rotation had a 3.28 ERA. The Oakland A's Staff of Ironmen.

That was all before there was an understandingf of what overwork did to young arms, so everyone was thinking the A's starters would pitch just as much and just as well and that the team would dominate the AL West for at least the first half of the '80's.

The complete collapse of the rotation was postponed for a year thanks to the '81 strike which kept Billy Martin and Art Fowler from overworking them a second year in a row, but by '82 the rotation, still intact, had bloated to a 4.63 ERA, By '83, only McCatty and Norris were left, and they won ten games between them.

No need to point out to me that the rotation assembled by the Phillies has more proven stars and better pitchers than the ones I've listed above, but the hype concerning how division titles and post season triumphs are already in the bag....that is the same.

And if Lee, Halladay et al show up on the cover of Sports Illustrated...
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Elizabethton, TN
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Reminds me of '69 when Leo Durocher overworked the Cub starters and the pitching fell apart in August.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:42 AM
 
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I like how Lee's wife said the New York fans were rude and they liked living in Philadelphia better. The guy gave up 30 million for a great shot at another World Series and Werth gave up any chance of another World Series for about the same money.
Now who do you think is going to be a favorite of the fans?
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 4,720,403 times
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One theory I heard was that one of his kids has lukemia and they have a special relationship/fondness with the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia which is one of the best. Why did the NY fans diss his wife? Was there some specific reason?
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:01 AM
 
19,351 posts, read 7,563,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Summers View Post
Don't get me wrong because I see them doing big things this year but Manuel could have Halladay and Lee do a lot a complete games this year (compensating for the pen) and they fall off at the end of the year...I don't know. Basically, I acknowledge that they'll be good but unexpected things do happen (like the Giants winning the WS).
These guys have proven toughness and stamina. Hamels is a different story, as is Oswalt.

The Phils are far from finished making moves this year.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
These guys have proven toughness and stamina. Hamels is a different story, as is Oswalt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
The Phillies' BP is pretty average. That'll be mitigated by having the two starters (Halladay and Lee) who are 1 and 2 in complete games over the last 3 years. Oswalt is 7th.

Halladay is #1 in innings pitched over the last 3 seasons. Lee is 5th. Hamels is 14th and Oswalt is 22nd.
The700Level.com - Philly Sports & Minutiae: Cliff Lee's Wife's List of Things That They Love About Philadelphia

Quote:
"It's actually a list of things. I have it on paper. I wrote it all down," Kristen said following her husband's welcome back to Philly press conference. Asked if the list of pros about Philly was much longer than that of New York or Texas, she said "yes" with a big smile.

"We couldn't be happier to be back. It just is a good fit for our family, for our kids, for me, and for him."
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: LawnGuyLind, NY / Sarasota, FL
1,429 posts, read 1,207,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
One theory I heard was that one of his kids has lukemia and they have a special relationship/fondness with the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia which is one of the best. Why did the NY fans diss his wife? Was there some specific reason?

CHOP is indeed a very special place. And it may have the best Leukemia program in the world. NY also has some terrific CHildren's Hospitals, and wonderful programs, but CHOP is the best.

I do have a soft spot in my heart for CHOP however, so I AM biased. Their major fundraising campaign is Daisy Day. Many many years ago I had a role in expanding the coverage of that fundraiser into the neighborhoods of Philadelphia.

Buught a Spring Training ticket package yesterday - looking forward to seeing Lee & Co. up close & personal.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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How The Boss Would Have Reacted, Texas Fans Almost Set Themselves on Fire Burning a Cliff Lee Jersey - Crossing Broad
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:09 PM
 
2,758 posts, read 3,438,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
These guys have proven toughness and stamina. Hamels is a different story, as is Oswalt.
I'll give you that and I would love for Manuel to put it to the test and let Lee and Halladay break the CG record this year. In all seriousness, something has got to give and that's my concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
The Phils are far from finished making moves this year.
Well, what moves do you see them making? Bullpen? Offense? Bench?

“Baseball, you play 162 games, people get hurt. Injuries play a big part in teams that make the playoffs and don’t. Nothing is going to be won over offseason acquisitions.”-Brian McCann (got it from here)

I concur with McCann. It's going to be a good year though in the NL East.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,296 posts, read 6,856,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Summers View Post
I'll give you that and I would love for Manuel to put it to the test and let Lee and Halladay break the CG record this year. In all seriousness, something has got to give and that's my concern.
Doubtful that Halladay or Lee will be pitching 70+ complete games


Quote:
“Baseball, you play 162 games, people get hurt. Injuries play a big part in teams that make the playoffs and don’t. Nothing is going to be won over offseason acquisitions.”-Brian McCann (got it from here)

I concur with McCann. It's going to be a good year though in the NL East.
You and McCann are wrong.

Teams need to make acquisitions knowing that players will be injured.
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