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it is unrecognizable in it's current context...if you will simply list them one by one as in a real discussion I will be happy to respond. We can measure whose is bigger later. put up or shut up...."....seriously? point by point big guy.
Are you now telling us that you are incapable of looking at the referenced post, and picking out any one of the points to which to respond?
You are just wasting everyone's time because obviously you do not have an explanation for any of the evidence, much less all of it. If you do, prove me wrong and provide it. Quit stalling.
If it is only about Bonds why did you bring race into the discussion?
Because I believe that Bonds is the victim of underlying racism just as the Hammer received death threats. Racism is not always a generalized viewpoint. The acts that follow from it are specific and in this case specific to how Bonds has been pursued. Clemens are other players are also unique and the reasons they are treated is consistent with their situation.
That is the reason that I have asked our good friend Grandstander to list the accusations (circumstantial or otherwise) point by point so that they can be addressed in a logical format. So far he is unwilling to do so. That may be caused by many things and I would assert underlying racism (not specific to him as I would not know) may be a factor in people not wanting to actually look at facts. Emotionally based circumstantial evidence has convicted many an innocent man (black and white alike).
Here they are...are you blind? Illiterate? Do not read English? Pick a point, any point. Are you incapable of selecting one from the list?
You seem to be doing anything and everything to avoid responding..and of course the general assumption will be that it is because you cannot respond with anything coherent. This nonsense about listing them one at a time is an obvious excuse on your part to not have to do what you apparently cannot do.
I shall require responses to all of the below points, so it does not matter where you start, only that you start...Which you keep refusing to do.
Quote:
Against Bonds we have:
The records found by the Balco investigators
Bonds relationship with Greg Anderson as his personal trainer, a man who has been convicted of steroid distribution and a man who had been employed by Balco Labs, a business which was raided and shut down by law enforcement because it was also an illegal steroid distribution factory.
The fact that Greg Anderson has, despite grants of personal immunity from prosecution, refused to testify inany of the legal proceedings associated with Bonds' trial, and has accepted jail time rather than doing so. If his testimony was going to be that Bonds was not a steroid user, then why would he prefer to accept being incarerated rather than simply telling the courts what he knows? The obvious only reason that Anderson isn't testifying, is that he cannot do so without either damning Bonds, or facing perjury charges himself.
The testimony of Bonds' former girlfriend and former agent, both of whom swear to have had conversations with Bonds about his steroid use.
The fact that the Federal government believes that Bonds lied to them, so much so that they have gone to a great deal of time, trouble and expense to pursue this matter.
The manifest changes in Bonds' physical appearance, starting in 1999 and noted by nearly everyone at the time, including myself.
The fact that starting at age 35, a time when everyone else is in their decline stages of athletic ability, Bonds not only had the best four seasons of his career, he had the best four seasons that anyone has ever had. That sort of thing simply is not possible. It does not happen without something extraordinary going on.
We also have the peripheral evidence of the performance of other identified steroid users. Three players topped the Maris record six times in the space of four seasons. One of those players, Mark McGwire, has now confessed to having used steroids to make those feats possible. Another, Sammy Sosa, has been identified as one of the 103 players on the positive test list from 2003. Both McGiwre and Sosa also went through extaordinary changes to their physical appearance, just as Bonds did.
How about explaining that last point if you need someone to select for you for some reason. Since 60 or more homeruns was accomplished only twice between 1920 (the start of the homerun era) and 1998, a period of 79 seasons..and then in the space of just four seasons, it was passed by three players a total of six times.
Now...obviously...well, obviously to everyone except you, something unusual was taking place to alter the rate from twice every 79 years to six tiomes in four years. Two of the three players involved have been identified as having used steroids. McGwire has confessed, Sosa tested positive in the 2003 check. Further, we know that Sosa has no qualms about cheating, the corked bat incident established that.
So now we are left with the third player, Barry Bonds. Does basic logic tell us that like McGwire and Sosa, he must have been using PEDS to hit 73 homeruns in a single season, or, are we to conclude that this was just some fantastic coincidence and that unlike McGwire and Sosa, Barry was playing clean?
Now if that was the only piece of evidence, we might accept the possibility of it being a coincidence. But when packaged with all the other evidence against Bonds, he is clearly guilty.
Now, do you finally want to address any of this, or are you just going to keep making feeble excuses and trying to avoid having to answer?
Last edited by Grandstander; 03-25-2011 at 01:40 PM..
I just listened to the tape of Greg Anderson bragging about having helped to develop undetectible substances. If that's really his voice on the tape I certainly don't blame him for not wanting to testify.
why not when he would be offered immunity for anything that came up - it's like a legal confession of sin .... get it in the open, say a couple mea culpas and clean the sheet for the next round
if anything it would give him more incentive from a personal standpoint to testify .... clean his own sheet and clear a buddy from perjury charges
Here they are...are you blind? Illiterate? Do not read English? Pick a point, any point. Are you incapable of selecting one from the list?
You seem to be doing anything and everything to avoid responding..and of course the general assumption will be that it is because you cannot respond with anything coherent. This nonsense about listing them one at a time is an obvious excuse on your part to not have to do what you apparently cannot do.
I shall require responses to all of the below points, so it does not matter where you start, only that you start...Which you keep refusing to do.
How about explaining that last point if you need someone to select for you for some reason. Since 60 or more homeruns was accomplished only twice between 1920 (the start of the homerun era) and 1998, a period of 79 seasons..and then in the space of just four seasons, it was passed by three players a total of six times.
Now...obviously...well, obviously to everyone except you, something unusual was taking place to alter the rate from twice every 79 years to six tiomes in four years. Two of the three players involved have been identified as having used steroids. McGwire has confessed, Sosa tested positive in the 2003 check. Further, we know that Sosa has no qualms about cheating, the corked bat incident established that.
So now we are left with the third player, Barry Bonds. Does basic logic tell us that like McGwire and Sosa, he must have been using PEDS to hit 73 homeruns in a single season, or, are we to conclude that this was just some fantastic coincidence and that unlike McGwire and Sosa, Barry was playing clean?
Now if that was the only piece of evidence, we might accept the possibility of it being a coincidence. But when packaged with all the other evidence against Bonds, he is clearly guilty.
Now, do you finally want to address any of this, or are you just going to keep making feeble excuses and trying to avoid having to answer?
Its hard to see your points in between your rants and your (need) for anger management. Alas, I feel that you cannot participate on an adult level. I did sincerely make an attempt to read through your post but the "points" you make are simply not rational and full of innuendo assumptions and in your word "guilty by circumstance". Honestly and I am being so I found no points which I could respond to without wandering around them. I believe that you think Bonds is guilty as a bird chirping in the forest and honest men are allowed to disagree and since despite my requests you simply became more of a bar brawler perhaps we should leave it there. At this point I do doubt your ability to do it any other way and since I am a good sport and you seem never to have been taught that, I think that continuing with you would only **** you off so....
And something tells me that if you pitched you threw at their heads.
Bonds has never tested positive for steroid use. That is a fact and it is not in dispute.
I just listened to the tape of Greg Anderson bragging about having helped to develop undetectible substances. If that's really his voice on the tape I certainly don't blame him for not wanting to testify.
Interesting. Odd that he spent relatively little time in jail for those offenses and many more months for refusing to testify against Bonds.
Due his refusal I'm sure Giambi is going to be hailed as a real boy scout; loved.........and hated. Again all it proves is that he did use steroids not that Bonds did.
I guess some would call that guilty as proven by his knowledge friendship with Anderson. "in the same room" theory...Hardly proof more speculative in reasoning.
I think that cleaning up baseball is a good idea. to bad they had to blame someone. Who blames the Hammer for "greenies"? Not a soul. Baseball appears to want it's demons and it's heroes despite the evidence either way...at least Milwaukee Bud did.
to this
Barry Bonds | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/teresadwellsphotography/3385397434/ - broken link)
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