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Old 05-03-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
You can throw all the war info you want but look at right now which was the question. Look at ERA and the record...enough said!
It is enough if the extent of your intellectual curiosity is such that it is satisfied by inferior information.

The idea of stats such as WAR is to come up with a way to evaluate players which eliminates the flaws which accompany the more familiar stats.

The idea is that W/L records or ERA isn't enough.

If there was a national organization of those who lack intellectual depth, I'm confident that their motto would be ""nuff said." All their public addresses would begin with "All I know is...."
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
How do these two pitchers compare in 2011?
2011
Sabathia: 8.10 K/9, 2.48 BB/9, .45 HR/9, 2.72 FIP, 1.2 WAR
Verlander: 9.56 K/9, 3.19 BB/9, 1.13 HR/9, 3.53 FIP, 0.9 WAR

2009 - 2011
Verlander: 9.47 K/9, 2.65 BB/9, .70 HR/9, 2.94 FIP, 15.5 WAR
Sabathia: 7.62 K/9, 2.69 BB/9, .71 HR/9, 3.41 FIP, 12.6 WAR

500 innings worth of data (almost) always (there are cases where a guy is different than he was before. See Bautista, Jose) gives a better picture than 50 innings.

I mean Tom Gorzelanny did this yesterday:
8 innings, 0 runs, 3 hits, 0 walks, 4 strikeouts.

While Jarred Weaver did this:
6 innings, 3 runs, 6 hits, 1 walk, 6 strikeouts.

Do we conclude that Gorzelanny is better than Weaver?

Do we think that Zach Britton will outpitch Tim Lincecum this year?
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Brad Penny is better than CC Sabathia

MLB.com Gameday | MLB.com: Gameday

Penny 5/3/2011: 6 innings, 6 hits, 0 earned runs, 2 walks, 1 strike out, 0.00 ERA, 1 win
Sabathia 5/3/2011: 7 innings, 10 hits, 4 earned runs, 3 walks, 6 strike outs, 5.14 ERA, 1 loss
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,164 posts, read 15,144,066 times
Reputation: 2534
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Zach Britton is better than Tim Lincecum, right?
Britton: 5 - 1 2.63
Lincecum: 2 -3 2.90


YouTube - FIP: A New ERA

Britton: 4.78 K/9, 3.58 BB/9, .72 HR/9, 0.5 WAR, 4.14 FIP
Lincecum: 10.04 K/9, 2.90 BB/9, .45 HR/9, 1.2 WAR, 2.50 FIP

Maybe not
So you're going to compare a new guy to a guy who has been around a few years? Come on,really? Verlander is a very good pitcher but Sabathia has been better since he came in.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,164 posts, read 15,144,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Brad Penny is better than CC Sabathia

MLB.com Gameday | MLB.com: Gameday

Penny 5/3/2011: 6 innings, 6 hits, 0 earned runs, 2 walks, 1 strike out, 0.00 ERA, 1 win
Sabathia 5/3/2011: 7 innings, 10 hits, 4 earned runs, 3 walks, 6 strike outs, 5.14 ERA, 1 loss
Wow, showing the intelligence I see. Make some real comparisons and we will see. Verlanders career vs. Sabathia.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
Wow, showing the intelligence I see. Make some real comparisons and we will see. Verlanders career vs. Sabathia.
ERA and wins man, enough said...
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
So you're going to compare a new guy to a guy who has been around a few years? Come on,really? Verlander is a very good pitcher but Sabathia has been better since he came in.
The OP asked for the best pitcher right now.

Not the best pitcher over the last 10 years

Right now, Verlander is better than Sabathia

And yes, a new guy can can certainly be better than a guy who's been around for a few years

Last edited by filihok; 05-03-2011 at 09:53 PM..
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,164 posts, read 15,144,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
The OP asked for the best pitcher right now.

Not the best pitcher over the last 10 years

Right now, Verlander is better than Sabathia

And yes, a new guy can can certainly be better than a guy who's been around for a few years
A new guy "can" be a one year fluke, right now Verlander is not as good as Sabathia.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
A new guy "can" be a one year fluke,
Of course he can.

If you look at things like ERA and W-L record you won't be as likely to know if a guy is a one year fluke as you will if you look at things like K/9, BB/9, FIP, BABIP and Left On Base %.

I refer you again to Zack Britton. He's 5 - 1 with a 2.63 ERA.

However all of his other stats indicate he's a guy who should have an ERA around 4.

His BABIP is .241. He won't sustain that.
His LOB% is 83%. He won't sustain that.

He's going to start giving up more hits. Those hits will put more runners on base and come when runners are already on base allowing more runs to score.

Quote:
right now Verlander is not as good as Sabathia.
No he's not. There's not a huge difference between them, but Verlander has been obviously better over the last 2 seasons.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Verlander makes history in Detroit | tigers.com: News
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