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Old 03-04-2012, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,350 posts, read 18,662,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post

But now that you have raised another issue, they start EVERY Worlds Series game (every one, no compromises) to accommodate the crybabies in California who don't want to miss the national anthem, at the expense of school kids in the east who have to go to bed on school nights in the fifth inning.

.
And games on the West coast get started at 5 pm when the setting sun makes visibility lousy and everyone is just getting off work and will miss the first several innings. This is so folks on the East coast may see it.

No matter when they are started, it will inconvenience someone. 5pm starts targets the largest possible audience.

All of your plans shrink the total possible viewers.

Why would an entertainment industry seek a smaller audience?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,465,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
And games on the West coast get started at 5 pm when the setting sun makes visibility lousy and everyone is just getting off work and will miss the first several innings. This is so folks on the East coast may see it.

No matter when they are started, it will inconvenience someone. 5pm starts targets the largest possible audience.

All of your plans shrink the total possible viewers.

Why would an entertainment industry seek a smaller audience?
It has often happened, early in the playoffs, that there would be two local starts at 4 or 5 pm. The western game for 7 pm eastern, and the eastern game for 4 pm eastern. When they could have just as easily flipflopped them and startred the eastern game at 7 and the western game at 2, resulting in the same game times. But that couldn't be done because it is a hard and fast rule that if the Yankees are playing, that is the prime time game, no matter how bad the sunfield is anywhere else.

Let me pose two questions to you.

1. If you have to miss two innings of every post season game, would you rather miss the first two or the last two?

2. If you need to alienate some fans, would you concern yourself with working adults who are already firm baseball fans, or school kids who are your hopes of keeping the game alive for the future?
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,350 posts, read 18,662,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
1. If you have to miss two innings of every post season game, would you rather miss the first two or the last two?

2. If you need to alienate some fans, would you concern yourself with working adults who are already firm baseball fans, or school kids who are your hopes of keeping the game alive for the future?
1) That would depend on the game, wouldn't it? If it was close, I'd rather see the end. If it was a blowout, the final innings would be boring.

2) I don't understand...you are the one who wants the games played when kids are in school.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:08 AM
 
203 posts, read 278,713 times
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I guess Im a traditionalist in that I like the emphasis on the (long, 162 game) regular season. Adding more playoff teams takes that away, and makes hot streaks and trade deadline personnel changes more important. That is not what baseball is. there is a reason people say a player is their batting average - you might get hot, or cold, but over 500-600 at bats (or 600-700 plate appearances) your numbers will be what you are as a player. The same thing goes for a collection of players e.g teams.

The MLB champ was most often the observed best MLB team when they had to out play about 7 other teams for a pennant, and then 1 team in a best of 7 for the championship. Or when the system was closest to that.

That's why I hope for the system to eventually get back to a modern version of that form.... No wild cards, 2 leagues with 2 (or 0) divisions, even number of teams in each league and divisions.

My hope is for something like this:


< Inter-league Rivalry
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,465,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
1) That would depend on the game, wouldn't it? If it was close, I'd rather see the end. If it was a blowout, the final innings would be boring.

2) I don't understand...you are the one who wants the games played when kids are in school.
1. Unless and until baseball is fixed, those determining the starting time don't know yet whether the game will be close or not. But the games that turn out to be most memorable nearly always have their great moments in the late innings.

2. You keep doing that. I advocated that one or two games be played in the daytime, if necessary to enable long-distance travel to continue the series without an open travel date, like they do during the regular season. Do not reinterpret that to mean that I have ranted to have all (or most or even many) post season games played in the daytime, or any other arguments that I have never made. By repeatedly insisting on doing so, you are revealing more about yourself than about me.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-05-2012 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,350 posts, read 18,662,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
2. You keep doing that. I advocated that one or two games be played in the daytime, if necessary to enable long-distance travel to continue the series without an open travel date, like they do during the regular season. Do not reinterpret that to mean that I have ranted to have all (or most or even many) post season games played in the daytime, or any other arguments that I have never made. By repeatedly insisting on doing so, you are revealing more about yourself than about me.
Perhaps in this thread it is one game, but this isn't the first time we have staged this discussion, is it? Do you deny that in the past you have expressed the idea that it was better when the games..all the games...were played in daylight? Or did I just imagine that and argue against it?

Should I take the current "one day game" stance to be a sign that my past arguments influenced your thinking and you have now modified your vision as a consequence?
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Or did I just imagine that and argue against it?
It wouldn't have been the first, nor the last time.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,350 posts, read 18,662,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It wouldn't have been the first, nor the last time.
But it isn't either.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:52 AM
 
2,963 posts, read 3,068,804 times
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Disagree. Same example:

A = 104 (Division X title)
B = 101 (in Division X)
C = 98 (Division Y title)
D = 87 (in Division Y ) <--- changed division to Y for this example.


In 1993 and earlier, Team A and C would make the playoffs, but not B. Back then, there were two divisions per league and you had to win your division to get in. How would that be "fair"? Honestly, I don't really care about the fairness. My point is that prior to 1993, teams B and D would be crying the blues that they missed the playoffs because there were only 2 teams per league (4 total) to make the playoffs. So you'd be crying foul over THAT example too.

Go back even further... prior to 1969, only Team A would make the playoffs. They'd face off against Team ??? from the other league. How is THAT fair?

Under this new system, Team E has a shot whereas before they did not. How is that a bad thing? More markets will be in the playoff hunt down to the wire.

Point is this... it gives value to actually winning your division. There should be a bonus. Home field advantage itself really isn't much of an "advantage to be honest." Check baseball history. In the playoffs (when it counts), the home-team tends to win 54% of its games. That is very tiny.

So, Team B will be trying to catch Team A so they don't have to wind up in a single-game elimination (mind you, this would be a game that Team B would LOVE to have prior to the 1994 season!). Now, imagine that Team B is only 1 GB from Team A with 1 game left. Do you bring out your ace to try and catch them in the last game? Do you hold your ace back for the WC play-in game?

Now, for the real bonus... The #1 team in the league gets to play a slightly diminished WC. In all likelihood, the WC team will not be pitching its ace in Game 1. He'll wait for Game 3 probably. That's how it should be. A bonus for not only winning your division, but a second bonus for having the best league record.

I think its a great idea and will make baseball better.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,465,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
How would that be "fair"? Honestly, I don't really care about the fairness. My point is that prior to 1993, teams B and D would be crying the blues that they missed the playoffs because there were only 2 teams per league (4 total) to make the playoffs. So you'd be crying foul over THAT example too.
No, I would never cry foul over the team with the most wins in the regular season playing in the post season. I would never cry foul if some team down in the middle of the pack did not have a chance, in one single game, to replace a team with a better season record.

If you don't care about fairness, get out of baseball fandom. We already have an overabundance of people who are more concerned about TV revenues and luxury box sales, than about the fairness of the results of the play.
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