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Old 03-08-2012, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,269,803 times
Reputation: 36087

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What about uniforms? After the '70's experiment with shorts, day-glow colors, open collars, and those god awful bannana suits the Pirates wore, MLB teams decided to junk all of that and return to the old classic look.

Some of the things you listed above....huh? "NBA sized pitchers?' Like that has been some aesthetic choice rather than the fact that people in general are taller than they were 50 years ago. I don't think anyone who can retire batters effectly would be barred from playing on the basis of height. Tim Lincecum isn't any taller than Ron Guidry was.

There are only about 4 teams in MLB who do not still regularly wear a colored jersey. That was a permanent and pervasive change, that cycled quickly through a few unsuccessful outrages. And I don't classify uniform fashions as changes that impact on the play.

Cub owners want to fill their seats to capacity with gee-whiz spectators with huge concession appetites, and care not a whit if the real fans can get (or afford) tickets or not.

To meet that ardent desire, baseball has intentionally shifted to a power contest, rewarding brute strength, both batting and pitching, because the club owners perceive that as a change that yields greater profits. Hence, the tall power pitchers throwing hard with a pitch count. You can call that good for baseball if you want to, but you'll need to come up with some new arguments if you want to convince me, not the same old ones.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-08-2012 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,997 posts, read 18,573,926 times
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jtur88

Quote:
And I don't classify uniform fashions as changes that impact on the play.
I see. That was but a cosmetic change, not like those other "impact" changes you listed such as manager interviews in the 4th inning, high fives and batting gloves. I keep forgetting, what was the big impact of high fives again? Did they cause run scoring to go up or down?


Quote:
To meet that ardent desire, baseball has intentionally shifted to a power contest, rewarding brute strength, both batting and pitching, because the club owners perceive that as a change that yields greater profits. Hence, the tall power pitchers throwing hard with a pitch count. You can call that good for baseball if you want to, but you'll need to come up with some new arguments if you want to convince me, not the same old ones.
In that we have never exchanged any sort of ideas on the subject before, and indeed, this is the first time I've learned of this clandestine plan on the part of MLB to "reward brute strength", I have not the means to distinguish old arguments on the subject from new ones.

The argument I would offer, without awareness as to its age, is that you are just making all that up, that you do not actually know of any such plan and have simply decided that there must have been such a conspiracy and now are treating it as established fact. If this guess on my part is incorrect, you may prove this by offering the evidence you employed to reach your conclusion. (That would be actual evidence, not merely a conclusion that "it had to be that way.")

I would also ask...since players in the NFL and NBA are also taller and heavier than those who filled the rosters in the past, were those organizations in on this master "brute" plan as well? And how did MLB get colleges to go along with the plan, their players are bigger nowadays.

You may be on to something, I think you should write a book ripping the cover off this scheme..."The Brutizing Of American Sports: Why Big Means Big Bucks."
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: NE PA
7,936 posts, read 13,864,869 times
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As an NL fan, I do not want the DH. I would rather it go away altogether, but I'm OK with the just keeping things the way they are with the DH in the AL. Although it would have been something if the NL had the DH and the Phils were able to hold on to Jim Thome all these years and have had him and Howard in the middle of the lineup.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:00 PM
Status: "Dow hits new high - over 27,000!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
46,878 posts, read 37,036,075 times
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It's getting to where tradition as we know it doesn't matter anymore. Baseball tradition has been watered down and, in some cases, washed away by new implementations through the years that were supposedly designed to "better the game".

Nothing that happens anymore will surprise me. Watch the DH be implemented in the National League. They'll do it whether we like it or not.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
5,985 posts, read 3,737,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by case44 View Post
It's getting to where tradition as we know it doesn't matter anymore. Baseball tradition has been watered down and, in some cases, washed away by new implementations through the years that were supposedly designed to "better the game".

Nothing that happens anymore will surprise me. Watch the DH be implemented in the National League. They'll do it whether we like it or not.
Yes, they will. Let's be glad they didn't adopt Charlie Finley's "designated runner" idea. Or his orange baseballs.
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,269,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
Yes, they will. Let's be glad they didn't adopt Charlie Finley's "designated runner" idea. Or his orange baseballs.
How would "Designated Runner" be any better or worse than Designated Hitter. What is the philosophical difference?

Since pitchers are not competent fielders and cannot be expected to be because that's not their role, why not have a designated fielder stand behind the mound, to handle the fielding responsibilities that pitchers are called on to do?

Before you say "Some pitchers are good fielders, and they practice fielding a lot". when was the last time you saw a pitcher put into an infield or outfield position as a defensive replacement?

If a baseball player, who is supposed to be a professional athlete, cannot perform a task called for in the normal play of the game, what is the difference between a designated hitter, a designated fielder, and a designated runner? If you think some but not all of the above should be allowed, justify your argument about where the line should be drawn. Don't just use the Christian cop-out of saying "All gods are false except my own."
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
5,985 posts, read 3,737,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How would "Designated Runner" be any better or worse than Designated Hitter. What is the philosophical difference?

Since pitchers are not competent fielders and cannot be expected to be because that's not their role, why not have a designated fielder stand behind the mound, to handle the fielding responsibilities that pitchers are called on to do?

Before you say "Some pitchers are good fielders, and they practice fielding a lot". when was the last time you saw a pitcher put into an infield or outfield position as a defensive replacement?

If a baseball player, who is supposed to be a professional athlete, cannot perform a task called for in the normal play of the game, what is the difference between a designated hitter, a designated fielder, and a designated runner? If you think some but not all of the above should be allowed, justify your argument about where the line should be drawn. Don't just use the Christian cop-out of saying "All gods are false except my own."
I dislike the DH and would not like either the DR or DF. But I am in favor of a designated fan (DF2) who would read all the boxscores when I'm too busy. And I have no objection to a DM who would replace a manager who has been ejected.
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,269,803 times
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How about a "Designated Player", who at any point in a game, can be inserted temporarily into the lineup as a batter, a base runner, a pitcher, or a fielder. (Must be the same player through the whole game.) There would have to be a rule that you can put in the DP on offense only once per trip through the batting order, or a defensive player or pitcher for only one batter per inning. Or else Barry Bonds could be sent up to bat three times in a row in the bottom of the ninth,, or you could have a righty and a lefty pitch the whole game.

It would be interesting to see who a manager would designate, employing which skill sets. Would you use a power hitter, a high average switch-hitter with speed, or a lefty pitcher to spell a righty who is a good bunter and hits decently (there's no DH)?

Last edited by jtur88; 03-11-2012 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:10 AM
 
128 posts, read 216,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
You notice that whenever a discussion about the DH ensues, it's always that the National League should (or will be, depending on who's pontificating) adopt it. Never that the American League should abandon it.
Exactly, i think the game of baseball should be the same 9 players batting and fielding without any DH. I can see why they'd want to implement the DH rule in the NL to make the game more exciting, more hits etc etc but i just dont agree with it.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
5,985 posts, read 3,737,533 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How about a "Designated Player", who at any point in a game, can be inserted temporarily into the lineup as a batter, a base runner, a pitcher, or a fielder. (Must be the same player through the whole game.) There would have to be a rule that you can put in the DP on offense only once per trip through the batting order, or a defensive player or pitcher for only one batter per inning. Or else Barry Bonds could be sent up to bat three times in a row in the bottom of the ninth,, or you could have a righty and a lefty pitch the whole game.

It would be interesting to see who a manager would designate, employing which skill sets. Would you use a power hitter, a high average switch-hitter with speed, or a lefty pitcher to spell a righty who is a good bunter and hits decently (there's no DH)?
No to all the above. If I were baseball dictator there would be no DH and no inter-league play.
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