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Old 04-11-2012, 10:00 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 3,012,559 times
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Well played. The so-called Texas Revolution is one of the biggest lies of our history. The fact that it was all about the 'right' of US settlers to own other human beings in Texas is rarely, if ever, mentioned. It certainly wasn't in my history classes when I was growing up in Texas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, they were different. Castro wasn't acting to perpetuate the institution of slavery. The settlers would have been perfectly happy living in Mexico, except for the inconvenient fact that Mexico was one of the civilized nations that had already outlawed the slaves that the settlers wanted to bring with them in chains. The brave men of the Alamo fought to the death for nothing else but their beloved principles of slavery.

I don't know what you do for a living, but it's pretty obvious that you should stick to talking about that, and not about history or political science.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
5,985 posts, read 3,744,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, they were different. Castro wasn't acting to perpetuate the institution of slavery. The settlers would have been perfectly happy living in Mexico, except for the inconvenient fact that Mexico was one of the civilized nations that had already outlawed the slaves that the settlers wanted to bring with them in chains. The brave men of the Alamo fought to the death for nothing else but their beloved principles of slavery.

I don't know what you do for a living, but it's pretty obvious that you should stick to talking about that, and not about history or political science.
I agree that slavery was a consideration for those settlers who chose to invest in the emerging cotton economy of Texas. But other major causes of unrest among the settlers were the requirements that they learn to speak Spanish, be loyal to the Mexican government and convert to Roman Catholicism.

But getting back to the original premise, Ozzie Guillen's comments infuriated the children and grandchildren of Cuban refugees, many of whom had been stripped of their personal property and forced to work in the agricultural fields. Although Cuba had abolished slavery in the 1880's, the treatment of these people wasn't much better.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:11 AM
 
3,982 posts, read 5,779,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoutboy View Post
I would have fired Petrino because he misled the university about the details of his accident. Firing someone for a "moral" offense like adultery is pretty dumb. It's his wife's job to 'fire' him for that.
You may think it's dumb, but it is usually quite clearly spelled out in employment contracts. When someone is terminated for "cause," this indicates that part of the contract was breached. An employer can absolutely define, within reason, how they expect you to act. Philandering with a female co-worker half his age while he's married with 4 kids is probably not the kind of image a university wants out of its major figureheads. Had it not exploded in the national media and left a stain on the university, the situation might be handled differently. But, this is why they put these clauses in the contracts to begin with.

Also, the reason he "misled" them to begin with was because he was f-ing around. Otherwise, it's just a simple traffic accident. The accident is irrelevant. It's the hoochie mama on the back of the bike that makes this a scandal.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:18 AM
 
3,982 posts, read 5,779,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongtimeBravesFan View Post
Petrino put his girlfriend on the payroll in the athletic department.
He would never have been fired for that alone. Coaches are given a staff budget. While what he was doing was unethical, it was also concealable. You heard the President of the University getting all choked up at the news conference. Nobody wanted to let their cash cow go. They simply had to. It was beyond their control once the media ran with it and the NCAA started asking questions.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,344 posts, read 18,657,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Also note that you are not wrong in saying taxpayers ..... Just Miami Dade taxpayers
Well, at least I have caused you to change from "that completely unneeded and unfounded cheap shot" to the above recognition that it is indeed public taxpayers who are footing the bill for providing already wealthy people the opportunity to greatly enhance their revenue streams. And in the face of the study I presented to you, you seem to have dropped your assertion that these sorts of deals are good for the local economies.

I still believe that you are misunderstanding the nature of how people get taxed, but I'll settle for the above recognitions on your part.

BTW...I really do endorse your reading the study I linked. I suspect that it will open your eyes considerably as to how cities get taken to the cleaners by these pro sports franchises, and how those franchises deceive the voters regarding community benefits. Spending 600 million dollars to create a few hundred part time, minimum wage jobs, is not a good deal for your hometown.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:12 AM
 
9,034 posts, read 16,471,250 times
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There are no "recognitions"

It was an unneeded cheap shot and completely irrelevant to the topic at hand ... are you sure you don't work for the Herald?!

You also completely mistated that miami-dade taxpayers were getting fleeced

I stated that miami dade tax payers aren't committed to 347M - and they are not

I stated that this is not a new tax - and it isn't

I recognized you getting warm when you tied in the tourist tax

I corrected you potential uses for that particular portion of said tourist tax ...... again, fully recognizing that this is tax money

Of course tourist tax money is tax money ...... never did I say otherwise

Not once did I saw there was no tax money - just that it wasn't miami dade taxpayers who were fronting that large sum of money ...... it's a tax that is already collected and has a percentage of it tied specifically to things like sports .... it's why the tax is there by the existing law

We don't have to like the tax or to like the law ..... but it wasn't created by or for the marlins and it isn't paid for in sum by miami-dade residents

BTW - I've read countless studies and most of them conclude that the net effect is zero ...... depending on how the deal is crafted and where it is crafted it can be a positive ..... it can frequently be negative, but there are also good circumstances as well

Coors Field has been very positive for LoDo in Denver - moreso than Pepsi Center or Mile High .... both of which are walkable, but pretty cutoff ...... the impacts on those 3 buildings would all make an interesting case study when crafting deals ..... especially with how parking was limited and arranged around Coors in an effort to keep property dense & available

Within 2 years of the opening of Petco Park there has been $2B in public & private financing around the stadium

In seattle the investment in SoDo has been massive with that entire area turning from basically a warehouse district that was run down to a place where they are building over parking lots to put up vast mixed use projects

the discussion mainly is if these projects would have just simply landed elsewhere ....... but again, we are getting very off topic

Basically there are 3 things:
  1. The stadium deal was misrepresented - if you are for or against such things isn't the point ....... it's the basics and can help shape what you should rail against
  2. I'm really not a fan of public funding for stadiums - we may disagree on the level of distaste - but accurately showing how a deal was financed doesn't mean full support of the deal
  3. None of this has to deal with Guillens comments and is completely off topic on a thread about Ozzie Guillen
That's why it was unneeded ....... however, people can't help but to take their digs even when it is completely unrelated, often citing bad information as fact which is why the whole thing is frustrating
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:06 PM
 
1,862 posts, read 3,012,559 times
Reputation: 2109
Disagree. What made this a scandal is the way he abused his position to put her on his staff and on a pretty high salary. In addition to how he mislead his employers regarding the nature of the accident. That is what got him fired. Not the fact he was cheating on his wife. So I do agree they had cause to can his ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
You may think it's dumb, but it is usually quite clearly spelled out in employment contracts. When someone is terminated for "cause," this indicates that part of the contract was breached. An employer can absolutely define, within reason, how they expect you to act. Philandering with a female co-worker half his age while he's married with 4 kids is probably not the kind of image a university wants out of its major figureheads. Had it not exploded in the national media and left a stain on the university, the situation might be handled differently. But, this is why they put these clauses in the contracts to begin with.

Also, the reason he "misled" them to begin with was because he was f-ing around. Otherwise, it's just a simple traffic accident. The accident is irrelevant. It's the hoochie mama on the back of the bike that makes this a scandal.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:13 PM
 
9,034 posts, read 16,471,250 times
Reputation: 6827
Going even further OT I agree that the ulimate root cause of Petrinos downfall was him cheating

Without the cheating there wouldn't have been the accident with the girl, wouldn't have been the investigation, wouldn't have been the questionable hire, wouldn't have been the cash payment, wouldn't have been the lying ........ it all stems back to that decision and that is what cost him

However, if it was just cheating without the associated issues ......... if he was just having sex with some waitress that had no affiliation to the program he would have skated

There was no way they wanted to fire him because of just being unfaithful to his wife ........ however, when all the other aspects that stemmed from that cheating came to light they had little choice
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:13 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 3,713,376 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
I agree that slavery was a consideration for those settlers who chose to invest in the emerging cotton economy of Texas. But other major causes of unrest among the settlers were the requirements that they learn to speak Spanish, be loyal to the Mexican government and convert to Roman Catholicism.
So when people say Mexicans who move here need to learn English and be loyal Americans, you call them out for being xenophobic racists, right?
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,344 posts, read 18,657,581 times
Reputation: 18803
I stand by my original characterization, backed by the study I presented. What might make me alter my view would be a non club or community sponsored study which reaches the opposite conclusion and supports you. If you have such a study to present, I will certainly examine it. If not, I suggest that this is a good point for both of us to drop the matter.
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