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Old 06-15-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
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Today I learned that Harper is a longtime Yankees fan. There could be pinstripes in his future.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Currently, Bryce Harper is having the 4th best offensive season by a rookie player under the age of 20 in major league history.

1884 Oyster Burns 56% better than the average hitter
1945 Whitey Lockman 44% better than the average hitter
1884 Fred Carroll 56% better than the average hitter
2012 Bryce Harper 38% better than the average hitter

Major League Leaderboards 2012 Batters Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

He's just above
Tony Conigliaro 37% better
Jimmie Foxx 33% better
Mel Ott 26% better
Ty Cobb 19% better

If Harper can continue at this pace, he'll have put together one of the most impressive rookie seasons in major league history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
He has stepped up the pace since you wrote the above, having two games with three hits in each, including a massive homerun today.

Just think what he could be doing if only he had gotten more minor league seasoning.
Currently, Harper is putting up the 2nd best offensive season by a rookie under 20 years old in major league history. 47% better than the league average hitter.
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Currently, Harper is putting up the 2nd best offensive season by a rookie under 20 years old in major league history. 47% better than the league average hitter.
Who put up the best? I thought of Valenzuela, but I looked it up and he was 20 as a rookie...or he bought a bith certificate saying he was twenty... I recall that Tony Conigliaro set the 19 year old hr record, and Mel Ott had a big year as a rookie when he was around ten years old or something.

One of those two?
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:21 PM
 
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He looked like a minor leaguer today.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Who put up the best? I thought of Valenzuela, but I looked it up and he was 20 as a rookie...or he bought a bith certificate saying he was twenty... I recall that Tony Conigliaro set the 19 year old hr record, and Mel Ott had a big year as a rookie when he was around ten years old or something.

One of those two?
Oyster Burns
Major League Leaderboards 2012 Batters Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball
56% better than the league average hitter, but in only 149 PA's
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Oyster Burns
Major League Leaderboards 2012 Batters Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball
56% better than the league average hitter, but in only 149 PA's
Oh yeah, Oyster. As I recall upon getting his final hit of the 1884 season, he stood at first and shouted "Let's see some other 19 year old beat this weighted runs created!"

Ott had 5.1 WAR as a 19 year old, I think that is what Harper needs to top to establish the best season ever by a 19 year old.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Ott had 5.1 WAR as a 19 year old, I think that is what Harper needs to top to establish the best season ever by a 19 year old.
Through Ott's first 241 PA's (his first two seasons at ages 17 and 18) he had a league average wRC+. By the time he was 19 he was a grizzled major league veteran.

Through Harper's first 181 PA's he's 47% better than the league.

By fWAR Harper's 2012 is already the 17th best season ever by a 19 year old position player.

He should finish the season with something along the lines of 2 - 2.5 WAR, placing him solidly in the top 10. Differences in measuring defense now and in Oyster's and Ott's time make a straight comparison somewhat difficult.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Differences in measuring defense now and in Oyster's and Ott's time make a straight comparison somewhat difficult.
Not to mention other differences like batters being able to request the type of pitch that they wanted, six balls constituting a walk, pitchers throwing from a six foot square box rather than a mound, or that 1884 was the first year that pitchers were allowed to throw overhand and the first year that catching a ball on the first bounce was no longer an out.

These things aside, it makes perfect sense to apply formulas such as wRC+ to compare eras.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
These things aside, it makes perfect sense to apply formulas such as wRC+ to compare eras.
You have a better idea?
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,367 posts, read 18,667,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
You have a better idea?
Cease attempts at trying to compare things with inappropriate tools. Comparing baseball of 1884 to baseball of 2012 may not be comparing apples and oranges, but it is like comparing apples and applesauce.

We have data which tells us that the average apple eater used to be able to consume the edible parts in 30 seconds, while today the average applesauced apple gets consumed in 25 seconds. Obviously what throws off attempts at comparing these actions is the difference between eating a whole apple and eating it in applesauce form. Trying to apply wRC+ to these different ages of baseball is akin to concluding the problem with comparing the old and new apple consumptions is that we need more precise stopwatches.

Last edited by Grandstander; 06-17-2012 at 12:10 PM..
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