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Old 05-29-2012, 06:50 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,130,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Their players aren't very talented
And the Phillies are the least deep team in the division. They had a good run, brought up some awesome talent, but the last several years new kids have been weaker IMO than most MLB teams rookies. Now as injuries mount, and Utley has had so many issues, I cannot imagine him being anything above mediocre, the lack of new, young talent is the reason they are putting too much pressure on starting pitching.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:19 PM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,502,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
And the Phillies are the least deep team in the division. They had a good run, brought up some awesome talent, but the last several years new kids have been weaker IMO than most MLB teams rookies. Now as injuries mount, and Utley has had so many issues, I cannot imagine him being anything above mediocre, the lack of new, young talent is the reason they are putting too much pressure on starting pitching.

Each year since the won the WS they have declined

2009...lost WS to Yankees
2010...lost to Giants in NLCS
2011...lost to Cardinals in 1st round
2012.....??????
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,840,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVandSportsGuy View Post
Their players are not talented but they came to Philadelphia and swept the Phillies?
The Minnesota Twins, who won a whopping 63 games last year won 3 of 4 from the Rangers (who won 96 games and have been pretty good of late) last season between June 9th and June 12th . The Twins also won 8 games in a row and 15 of 17 games in early and mid June.

Quote:
At some point you are going to have to realize that the Mets are improved and are not going anywhere no time soon.
I would say that at some point you are going to have to realize that a few wins here and there are totally meaningless, but MOD CUT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVandSportsGuy View Post
Each year since the won the WS they have declined

2009...lost WS to Yankees
2010...lost to Giants in NLCS
2011...lost to Cardinals in 1st round
2012.....??????
Or...

The Phillies have increased their regular season win total for 5 consecutive seasons.
2006...85 wins
2007...89 wins
2008...92 wins
2009...93 wins
2010...97 wins
2011...102 wins
2012...????? Probably not more than 102 wins. But, this is still a very good team.

Last edited by NewToCA; 05-30-2012 at 08:02 AM.. Reason: let's not get snarky
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,840,143 times
Reputation: 6637
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
And the Phillies are the least deep team in the division. They had a good run, brought up some awesome talent, but the last several years new kids have been weaker IMO than most MLB teams rookies. Now as injuries mount, and Utley has had so many issues, I cannot imagine him being anything above mediocre, the lack of new, young talent is the reason they are putting too much pressure on starting pitching.
The Phils are certainly in the decline part of their 'destiny', I won't argue against that. But it's a bit early to write them off.

Detroit was 27-26 on May 30th last season and won 95 games.

Pittsburgh was 51-44 on July 19th and lost 90 games.

People read way too much into early season records.

As for Utely, he's not the player he once was (he had a 5 year stretch where he was maybe the best player in the league),


WAR Grid | FanGraphs Baseball

but he's still very good when he gets on the field.

WAR Grid | FanGraphs Baseball

He was still one of the top 10 most productive 2nd baseman last season, despite missing about a third of the season.

The Phillies should be fine. As long as things quit going wrong for them.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn,NY
1,961 posts, read 4,315,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
I would say that at some point you are going to have to realize that a few wins here and there are totally meaningless, but I've seen your body of work here in the baseball forum, so I won't hold my breath.

2012...????? Probably not more than 102 wins. But, this is still a very good team.
A few wins? Did you check the standings? The Mets are much younger and more talented this season. Their bench players have really been contributing. The Phillies aren't really a good team withouth Utley, Halladay and Howard. Their pitchers are also struggling.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:29 AM
 
Location: The City
22,350 posts, read 32,288,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony22 View Post
A few wins? Did you check the standings? The Mets are much younger and more talented this season. Their bench players have really been contributing. The Phillies aren't really a good team withouth Utley, Halladay and Howard. Their pitchers are also struggling.

Wow guess good to see some life in the Mets fans but can you say a little premature; the Mets are what 2 up in the win column and 3 up in the loss column with like 112 games to play?

the injuries are hurting the Phils but if they can stick around and get healthy we will see; the Mets are untested along a long campaign
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn,NY
1,961 posts, read 4,315,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Wow guess good to see some life in the Mets fans but can you say a little premature; the Mets are what 2 up in the win column and 3 up in the loss column with like 112 games to play?

the injuries are hurting the Phils but if they can stick around and get healthy we will see; the Mets are untested along a long campaign
How is it a little premature? The Phillies are an average team right now. If they get back Utley, Howard and Doc, then they will be good. The Mets are playing really good.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,130,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
The Phils are certainly in the decline part of their 'destiny', I won't argue against that. But it's a bit early to write them off.

Detroit was 27-26 on May 30th last season and won 95 games.

Pittsburgh was 51-44 on July 19th and lost 90 games.

People read way too much into early season records.

As for Utely, he's not the player he once was (he had a 5 year stretch where he was maybe the best player in the league),


WAR Grid | FanGraphs Baseball

but he's still very good when he gets on the field.

WAR Grid | FanGraphs Baseball

He was still one of the top 10 most productive 2nd baseman last season, despite missing about a third of the season.

The Phillies should be fine. As long as things quit going wrong for them.

IMO, the Phils are not playoff bound in 2012. By year end, I expect the Nats and either Braves or Marlins to be securely playoff bound, and the other one from Braves/Fish will coompete with Central for 2nd wild card. The Phils have been weaker each of the last few years, and Manuel did great getting them as far as he did. Too one dimensional now-starting pitching only. When they first won the division, they were a well balanced team.

Add in that neither of the soon to be returning starters will be anywhere near 100% most likely in Howard's case until 13, and in Utley's..never.

50 games in is not early. It means by the time the weekend is done, MLB will have entered its second third of the season. 15 games is early.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,130,722 times
Reputation: 7282
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Wow guess good to see some life in the Mets fans but can you say a little premature; the Mets are what 2 up in the win column and 3 up in the loss column with like 112 games to play?

the injuries are hurting the Phils but if they can stick around and get healthy we will see; the Mets are untested along a long campaign
The Mets are 2.5 ahead having played 4 differnt shortstops so far, having Wright out several games (and he leads NL in BA, by a good margin), and using several call up outfielders consistently. They have used, I'd estimate, 29 players for several/dozens of games each. The reason they are ahead is the bench and the callups have done a very good job, while the Phils' new outfielders and infielders playing due to injury have not performed very well, and their bench due to using them, is awful.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:24 PM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,502,224 times
Reputation: 9451
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
The Minnesota Twins, who won a whopping 63 games last year won 3 of 4 from the Rangers (who won 96 games and have been pretty good of late) last season between June 9th and June 12th . The Twins also won 8 games in a row and 15 of 17 games in early and mid June.


I would say that at some point you are going to have to realize that a few wins here and there are totally meaningless, but MOD CUT.


Or...

The Phillies have increased their regular season win total for 5 consecutive seasons.
2006...85 wins
2007...89 wins
2008...92 wins
2009...93 wins
2010...97 wins
2011...102 wins
2012...????? Probably not more than 102 wins. But, this is still a very good team.


Total wins means nothing, it's the final result and you know the expectations for the Phillies each year is to win a WS and since winning one have went backward in regards to the final result of each season.
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