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Old 07-25-2012, 10:28 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 15 days ago)
 
48,232 posts, read 45,519,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
Like Grandstander said, Ichiro leaving the Mariners is NOT like Griffey, Alex Rodriguez, Tino Martinez and Randy Johnson. Ichiro is in the twilight of his career.

However, I think Ichiro does add something to the Yankees roster. Ibanez and Jones have no business playing LF. The team was designed to utilize those two as a platoon DH with occasional field time. Those two have been splitting time in LF all season, except for days when DeWayne Wise was out there.

It was a great pickup for the Yankees. Ichiro is no Brett Gardner. Then again, there is NO 2012 Brett Gardner. Gardner was possibly the #1 rated defensive OF the past few years. Ichiro is the #2 OF (defensively speaking) in 2012. He also has speed. That nearly covers 2 of the 3 things Gardner was great at. Ichiro's OBP is poor, but as Meatloaf used to say "Two out of three ain't bad."

Out of all the other known corner OF on the trading block, Ichiro was the best fit for the Yankees, all things considered. Other potential trade targets had teams that were asking for the moon in order to get the player's services for ~3 months.

As for the Mariners, it was a salary dump for the rest of the season and a nice gesture to Ichiro. The guy wants a chance at a WS before he retires. His contract is done at the end of this season and he won't get anything like that for 2013 and onwards. I won't go on to say that the Yankees would pick up Ichiro to take over RF with Swisher walks next season... the Yankees aren't known to carry two light hitting corner OFs... but anything is possible.
But how does this help the M's? They are already close to dead last right now.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:09 AM
 
Location: southwestern USA
1,815 posts, read 1,760,220 times
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Seattle did the right thing in trading Ichiro----they give him a chance to play on a winner and for the Mariners it opens up time for younger talent in conceding that Ichiro probably wouldnt have been back in Seattle next year.

It is always very difficult when a greatly respected and honored player comes close to the end of his career after many years in that organization. I think he will help the Yankees down the stretch, and hopefully the Mariners will get some help out of the two prospects they got back in return.

Mariner fans can look back fondly on the years of great service he gave to the franchise-----if he had played his entire career in mlb, he probably would be looking at 3500 plus hits-----his success and work ethic have also opened up avenues for an increased number of Japanese players to receive contract offers in this country.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,540,265 times
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Once upon a time, there was a general manager by the name of Branch Rickey. His philosophy about veteran players was this: you trade them while you can still get value for them.

I must be getting old, because I remember when the Seattle Mariners had a player by the name of Ichiro Suzuki. When, exactly, did he lose his last name?
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:20 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 15 days ago)
 
48,232 posts, read 45,519,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Once upon a time, there was a general manager by the name of Branch Rickey. His philosophy about veteran players was this: you trade them while you can still get value for them.

I must be getting old, because I remember when the Seattle Mariners had a player by the name of Ichiro Suzuki. When, exactly, did he lose his last name?
How does this help the Mariners as a team get to the World Series? No one seems to want to answer that question.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,036 posts, read 18,583,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
How does this help the Mariners as a team get to the World Series? No one seems to want to answer that question.
It frees up money which would have gone into overpaying Ichiro! for substandard performance.

Ask yourself....how much do you think a 38 year old outfielder not named ichiro!, with no power and a .288 OBA would be worth to any club? How much would such a player be offered by any club?

Now ask yourself what is the smallest amount the Mariners could have paid Ichiro to stay with the team beyond this season without it representing an insult to a franchise great?

In short, the Mariners could easily find a player who would make the sort of contribution Ichiro! is presently capable of making, but at a tiny fraction of what it would cost them if they employed Ichiro! instead.

That saved money can be used to hire younger, more valuable talent.

That is how it helps the Mariners.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,425,124 times
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Wouldn't he have been an A-class FA, thus netting the M's a draft pick which likely would've been better than the two scrubs they traded for? Or has that changed under the new collective bargaining agreement?
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,036 posts, read 18,583,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Wouldn't he have been an A-class FA, thus netting the M's a draft pick which likely would've been better than the two scrubs they traded for? Or has that changed under the new collective bargaining agreement?
I think understanding this deal requires the focus being on the Ichiro/Mariners relationship.

He is a franchise player and franchise players typically become problems at the end of their careers. Think Barry Larkin, think Craig Biggio. They reach a point where their production may be replaced by relatively inexpensive talent, and if you retain the franchise player you are covering a position with a player who costs more, has no future, is less likely to be able to stay in the lineup, and all this comes at the expense of that cheaper player who could be developing.

Franchise players cost more because there is always x amount of fan fury if a club makes an offer so low to an aging franchise player that he rejects it and signs elsewhere.

The very best part of this deal as far as the Mariners are concerned is that it eliminates all of the above awkwardness. They now will not be placed in a postion of either refusing to offer Ichiro a future contract, or offering him an insulting one which he rejects. A roster spot is freed up for a player with a future.

Simply arranging a graceful exit for Ichiro, getting out from the mess that they would have faced this off season, is such a desirable outcome that the return on the trade is a negligible concern.

And why would the Yankees offer more than they did? Ichiro will be a nine week rental, he becomes a free agent when the season ends. He isn't hitting very well at all, his value is greatly reduced. I certainly would not want any club I followed to give up a promising player in their system for nine weeks of Ichiro, would you?
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,238 posts, read 24,437,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
How does this help the Mariners as a team get to the World Series? No one seems to want to answer that question.
This doesn't, and no other move they can make during this season will either.

I've been a Mariners fan since I went to my first MLB game in August 1995. A Joey Cora walk-off single.

They haven't had a single player hit more than 20 bombs since 2009. Outside of Felix and Vargas, their starting pitching has been poor (look to the Millwood and Noesi experiments).

Last night, when they showed the starting lineup on the TV screen (I get MLB.TV for the sole purpose of watching the M's), I looked over to my wife and said, "the average casual baseball fan would say "Who?" to every player in that lineup". IIRC, 5 of them have current BA's below the Mendoza Line, and obv that's not including the recently sent down Justin Smoak.

The M's front office has failed miserably in putting a team together. The Ichiro trade doesn't pain me at all, he went out gracefully.

Major problems:
-4 yrs/$36M for Chone Figgins to sit on the bench and laugh (count on 1 more season of that).
-Franklin Gutierrez has basically been injured for the past two years (hope this is bad luck)
-Letting Brendan Ryan continue to play daily while he bats .189 because "he saves runs with his glove" (this may be more of a Wedge thing).
-Justin Smoak hasn't panned out (scouting obv not that good, look around most of the rest of the ballclub for evidence of that)
-Who knows if Wells, Saunders, Carp, Montero, (or even Peguero) will turn into true MLB players
-Seager and Ackley have fizzled after strong starts
-All of ^this adds up to a team that is DEAD LAST in MLB in batting @ .229

The bright spots:
Felix, Vargas, Wilhelmsen, some of the middle relief, and maybe even John Jaso (I like the way he plays, but he should be batting 6th through 8th, NOT 3RD).

So the M's didn't get much for Ichiro, you can't expect any contending team to trade away one of their "pieces" for Ichiro at this stage in his career. IMO, the M's need to go after young veteran (proven) free agents this off-season that can hit the freaking ball. No more of this Tacoma Rainiers stuff.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:46 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 15 days ago)
 
48,232 posts, read 45,519,102 times
Reputation: 15346
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
This doesn't, and no other move they can make during this season will either.

I've been a Mariners fan since I went to my first MLB game in August 1995. A Joey Cora walk-off single.

They haven't had a single player hit more than 20 bombs since 2009. Outside of Felix and Vargas, their starting pitching has been poor (look to the Millwood and Noesi experiments).

Last night, when they showed the starting lineup on the TV screen (I get MLB.TV for the sole purpose of watching the M's), I looked over to my wife and said, "the average casual baseball fan would say "Who?" to every player in that lineup". IIRC, 5 of them have current BA's below the Mendoza Line, and obv that's not including the recently sent down Justin Smoak.

The M's front office has failed miserably in putting a team together. The Ichiro trade doesn't pain me at all, he went out gracefully.

Major problems:
-4 yrs/$36M for Chone Figgins to sit on the bench and laugh (count on 1 more season of that).
-Franklin Gutierrez has basically been injured for the past two years (hope this is bad luck)
-Letting Brendan Ryan continue to play daily while he bats .189 because "he saves runs with his glove" (this may be more of a Wedge thing).
-Justin Smoak hasn't panned out (scouting obv not that good, look around most of the rest of the ballclub for evidence of that)
-Who knows if Wells, Saunders, Carp, Montero, (or even Peguero) will turn into true MLB players
-Seager and Ackley have fizzled after strong starts
-All of ^this adds up to a team that is DEAD LAST in MLB in batting @ .229

The bright spots:
Felix, Vargas, Wilhelmsen, some of the middle relief, and maybe even John Jaso (I like the way he plays, but he should be batting 6th through 8th, NOT 3RD).

So the M's didn't get much for Ichiro, you can't expect any contending team to trade away one of their "pieces" for Ichiro at this stage in his career. IMO, the M's need to go after young veteran (proven) free agents this off-season that can hit the freaking ball. No more of this Tacoma Rainiers stuff.
Maybe someone else needs to manage the M's and get rid of some deadweight. Still, I'm remembering times when they could have done it, namely 1995, 1997, 2000-2003. 2002-2003 they won 93 games each and still didn't go to the playoffs, but at least it was respectable. I'm still waiting and hoping for the year Seattle goes to the World Series. Living in the Atlanta area and being a Mariners fan, I've basically become something of a laughingstock to some people. Bad enough many people hate on the city of Seattle in general. However, being in Braves country, I basically stick out like a sore thumb. I was made fun of in middle school for being a Mariners fan. This is part of why I'm so upset these days. I'm not going to root for the Braves because I'm in Atlanta. I don't like the Braves, period. Never have. I root for the M's. If I wasn't a fan, I wouldn't be so upset.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,119 posts, read 7,571,803 times
Reputation: 6218
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Last night, when they showed the starting lineup on the TV screen (I get MLB.TV for the sole purpose of watching the M's), I looked over to my wife and said, "the average casual baseball fan would say "Who?" to every player in that lineup". .
Funny, I'm an A's fan, not die hard like I use to be, but they're my team.. Last year went to a game A's vs M's the only player from either team I had heard of......Now plays for the Yankees.....
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