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Old 12-09-2012, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,794,076 times
Reputation: 6636

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink View Post
Most Pirates followers are envious nonetheless. Royals are all in.
Why would anyone be envious about throwing away your future for a small chance at the present.

The Royals should be happy with 10 WAR out of Shields before he's a free agent.

It'd be a HUGE disappointment if Myers produced less than 15 WAR before he's a free agent. Then there's the difference in money...
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:34 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,700,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Why would anyone be envious about throwing away your future for a small chance at the present.

The Royals should be happy with 10 WAR out of Shields before he's a free agent.

It'd be a HUGE disappointment if Myers produced less than 15 WAR before he's a free agent. Then there's the difference in money...
I'm not saying I agree with the majority in Pittsburgh, but it's understandable when the Bucs haven't had a winning season in 20 years. I'd have liked the Bucs to chase Shields, but not at that price. Keep in mind that the Bucs farm system hasn't produced a front-line starter in years (Maholm being the only one who's actually still relevant in MLB).

Lots of fans here are clamoring for desperation moves like Dempster and Edwin Jackson. They're freaking out over not re-signing Karstens (and even Correia). Personally I'd rather save Ricky Nolasco from his fate with the Marlins, but the price for Shields probably just made Nolasco ridiculously expensive (although it is the Marlins, so anything is possible).

Anyway, the fact that Moore and Glass went for it now in a weak division simply underscores the Bucs failures and cheapness. This trade is going to put a lot of pressure on the Pirates FO to do something in addition to Martin.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,913 posts, read 18,566,118 times
Reputation: 18665
ESPN's David Schoenfield has offered a different perspective on the KC/Tampa bay deal.

Myers-Shields trade could work for Royals

Myers-Shields trade could work for Royals - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

Quote:
Myers has the potential to be a middle-of-the-order bat, several years away from making big money and under team control for six years. But right now, that's all he is: potential. You know who else had potential? Domonic Brown, Travis Snider, Cameron Maybin, Colby Rasmus, Delmon Young, Brandon Wood, Jeremy Hermida, Lastings Milledge, Ian Stewart, Joel Guzman and Andy Marte. They were all Baseball America's top-10 prospects since 2005. They were sure things. They, too, were going to be middle-of-the-order bats.

I'm not saying the prospect evaluators are wrong about Myers. My point: Just because Myers is a great prospect is no guarantee he'll be a great major leaguer. There's just too much evidence to suggest otherwise. Also, nobody knows Myers better than the Royals; it could be that there is something in his game or approach that they don't like. Or they simply don't rate him as a high as others. I know, I know: It's the Royals. With nationally known writers-slash-Royals fans such as Rany and Rob Neyer and Joe Posnanski, no small-market team gets critiqued as deeply as the Royals. General manager Dayton Moore's "process" has been a running joke for years.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,794,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
ESPN's David Schoenfield has offered a different perspective on the KC/Tampa bay deal.

Myers-Shields trade could work for Royals

Myers-Shields trade could work for Royals - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN
Or Shields could blow out his elbow in spring training. Anything can happen. That's why we need to account for the likelihood of each outcome.

In doing so, Myers is more valuable than Shields and Odorizzi, Montgomery and Leonard are much more valuable than Davis.





Kevin Youkilis to the Yankees for 1 year and $12 million. Excellent signing by the Yanks. I was hoping the Dodgers would sign Youk to play 3B instead of Cruz. Youk would have been a good fit in Tampa as well.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,794,076 times
Reputation: 6636
Reds acquire OFer Shin-soo Choo (and infielder Jason Donald?) for OFer Drew Stubbs and SS Didi Gregorius

A weird trade for the Reds. Choo is a good player, but they have their OF locked up with Ryan Ludwick in LF and Jay Bruce in RF. This means Choo will have to play CF. Doesn't seem like he's good enough defensively to do so.

Stubbs has shown rapid decline as a hitter. In 2010 he was league average. In 2011 he was 10% below league average and in 2012 he was 36% below league average. He's a good to very good defender, so he does have some value even with a below average bat. Gregorius is a strong prospect. Athletic on defense, but unrefined. Not much of a hitter, but good enough as a SS.

Choo has 1 year remaining before free agency. Gergorius is under team control for 6 years and Bruce is arbitration eligible for the first time.

I think the Indians did a good job getting value for Choo. Don't understand the trade for the Reds.

ETA: Looks like the Indians will now move Asdrubal Cabrera to the DBacks with Trevor Bauer? coming back. Excellent work by the Indians' front office

Last edited by filihok; 12-11-2012 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:50 AM
 
738 posts, read 968,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Reds acquire OFer Shin-soo Choo (and infielder Jason Donald?) for OFer Drew Stubbs and SS Didi Gregorius

A weird trade for the Reds. Choo is a good player, but they have their OF locked up with Ryan Ludwick in LF and Jay Bruce in RF. This means Choo will have to play CF. Doesn't seem like he's good enough defensively to do so.

Stubbs has shown rapid decline as a hitter. In 2010 he was league average. In 2011 he was 10% below league average and in 2012 he was 36% below league average. He's a good to very good defender, so he does have some value even with a below average bat. Gregorius is a strong prospect. Athletic on defense, but unrefined. Not much of a hitter, but good enough as a SS.

Choo has 1 year remaining before free agency. Gergorius is under team control for 6 years and Bruce is arbitration eligible for the first time.

I think the Indians did a good job getting value for Choo. Don't understand the trade for the Reds.

ETA: Looks like the Indians will now move Asdrubal Cabrera to the DBacks with Trevor Bauer? coming back. Excellent work by the Indians' front office
I think the Indians made out ok with the trade. Still have Cabrera and Chris Perez to unload.

Choo stinks in centerfield.

Stubbs and Reynolds may set a team K record.

Bauer and the 2 relievers seems like a good deal to me.

Now sign Swisher and the Tribe may contend past June.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,794,076 times
Reputation: 6636
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Reds acquire OFer Shin-soo Choo (and infielder Jason Donald?) for OFer Drew Stubbs and SS Didi Gregorius

A weird trade for the Reds. Choo is a good player, but they have their OF locked up with Ryan Ludwick in LF and Jay Bruce in RF. This means Choo will have to play CF. Doesn't seem like he's good enough defensively to do so.

Stubbs has shown rapid decline as a hitter. In 2010 he was league average. In 2011 he was 10% below league average and in 2012 he was 36% below league average. He's a good to very good defender, so he does have some value even with a below average bat. Gregorius is a strong prospect. Athletic on defense, but unrefined. Not much of a hitter, but good enough as a SS.

Choo has 1 year remaining before free agency. Gergorius is under team control for 6 years and Bruce is arbitration eligible for the first time.

I think the Indians did a good job getting value for Choo. Don't understand the trade for the Reds.

ETA: Looks like the Indians will now move Asdrubal Cabrera to the DBacks with Trevor Bauer? coming back. Excellent work by the Indians' front office
Weird trade for the Reds.

Epically weird trade for the DBacks.

They give up: Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw
and they get: DiDi Gregorius, Tony Sipp and Lars Anderson

Bauer was/is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball, Albers and Shaw are mediocre relievers.

They get back a SS-Gregorius-who can't hit and isn't elite on defense, Albers-a LOOGY who's not even that good, and a former prospect-Anderson-whose star has about shone out.

Further, odd, is that the DBacks have made the following trades recently:
SS Stephen Drew for basically nothing (Sean Jamieson)
CF Chris Young for SS Cliff Pennington (and Heath Bell)
SP Trevor Bauer for SS DiDi Gregorius.

Traded away a good SS for nothing.
Traded a potential star OF for a SS who can't hit.
Traded a potential star SP for another SS who can't hit.

I don't get it

Weirder, DBacks' GM Kevin Towers compared Gregorius to Derek Jeter. Except Jeter was a terrible defensive SS who could hit, while DiDi can't hit but has a decent glove.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,784 posts, read 23,807,188 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodipper View Post
I think the Indians made out ok with the trade. Still have Cabrera and Chris Perez to unload.

Choo stinks in centerfield.

Stubbs and Reynolds may set a team K record.

Bauer and the 2 relievers seems like a good deal to me.

Now sign Swisher and the Tribe may contend past June.
Tribe will have a lot of problems with strikeouts, but on the other hand the A's set a record for strikeouts last year but still made the playoffs. They clearly need to have some power in the OF, Stubbs and Brantley don't have much power at all, but should provide some stolen bases.

From stuff I've read the Indians are looking to sign Edwin Jackson and/or Nick Swisher, if they can get both then they should get some decent traction this season.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,794,076 times
Reputation: 6636
Cubs look like they'll sign Lim Chang-Yong out of the Japanese league. He's a right-handed reliever.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,700,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Weird trade for the Reds.
Not really. They needed a leadoff bat. Choo fills that need.

Bruce may play CF. He's not going to be a Fowler/Cutch/Jay caliber CF. But nobody is going to run on the Reds. And GAB's smallness offsets some of their lack of ability. Given Stubbs' futility at the plate it makes sense - Choo's offense will offset any defensive liabilities. Reds will have Hamilton up next year, and with Choo a Boras client, they'll likely make him a qualifying offer that Boras will refuse and Reds will get a comp draft pick.

It works out. I wanted Choo for the Bucs at the deadline last year.
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