U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-14-2012, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,824 posts, read 18,553,245 times
Reputation: 18653

Advertisements

Finger Laker...

Would you have preferred that the Marlins kept the '12 team intact and won 65 to 70 games with them in '13?

Your complaints all seem to go toward public image.."torching good will"...."severing anything remotely positive."

How do you evaluate the moves strictly in baseball terms?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,824 posts, read 18,553,245 times
Reputation: 18653
MLB free agency -- Torii Hunter agrees to deal with Detroit Tigers, a source says - ESPN


Source: Torii Hunter to Tigers

Quote:
Free-agent outfielder Torii Hunter has reached agreement on a two-year, $26 million deal with the Detroit Tigers pending a physical exam, a baseball source said Wednesday.


He hit .313 with the Angels in 2012, but his five-year, $90 million contract expired after the season, and the Angels declined to make him a $13.3 million qualifying offer. That means the Tigers are not obligated to give the Angels draft-pick compensation in exchange for signing Hunter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,421,659 times
Reputation: 6814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Finger Laker...

Would you have preferred that the Marlins kept the '12 team intact and won 65 to 70 games with them in '13?

Your complaints all seem to go toward public image.."torching good will"...."severing anything remotely positive."

How do you evaluate the moves strictly in baseball terms?
Ability to draw gate impacts your baseball product.

Ability to draw sponsor impacts your baseball product.

Ability to draw free agents impacts your baseball product.

There is a better way to rebuild and most of us marlins fans would have been fine with it.

They didn't need to take the atomic option again.

It's the misguided thought that if we have to be bad, we might as well be epic

It's a bad baseball move because they made terrible moves this summer leading up to this action - there was zero reason to trade bonifacio or reyes - especially reyes (but hey, they got the ever lovable yunel escobar back in return)

They are still sitting on Nolascos contract

They don't have enough ML ready arms to really field a rotation

Here is Lorias comment when asked if he would discuss the trade:

Quote:
Loria declined to discuss the trade with reporters as he passed through the hotel lobby at the owners meetings in Chicago.

"Not today, boys," Loria said. "If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not going to figure it out for you."
They could have had kept some players that were a draw, been patient and tried to get a better return on some players near the deadline or just have someone fill a post until some of the young guys were ready to step in to help keep their development somewhat typical

They could have shaved payroll, recorded a profit (with a new building, revenue sharing and cut of TV revenues from the national rights) and still worked with the people who will ultimately decide the fate of the game in Miami - their fans and local population

Instead they spat all over them in typically arrogant fashion

If they are successful in dumping Nolasco and don't make any major moves (really, how major of a move can they make aside from giving stanton some financial certainty) - early projections are of a payroll in the $20M-$30M range based on the current roster .......... even if they added an additional $20M to that # it's a joke and a betrayal to the fans and the community

They traded half their roster and didn't get one of the Jays top 4-5 prospects
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 02:20 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,421,659 times
Reputation: 6814
fwiw, there is some talk that they'll use escobar to bait some team into taking nolasco and then make hechevarria the starting SS................................
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,824 posts, read 18,553,245 times
Reputation: 18653
Finger Laker:
Quote:
It's the misguided thought that if we have to be bad, we might as well be epic
How much worse do you expect them to be than 63 wins?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,421,659 times
Reputation: 6814
they had 69 and I could easily see them in the mid 50s next year challenging the 1998 marlins season ..... if they held their June-Oct pace for a full year it would be about 58 wins

that 7 game losing streak in september when they scored 13 total runs will probably look like the norm (at least they broke out of it with a mighty 2-1 win (following 8 strong innings by a guy no longer there)

they made the team worse, killed the last beating pulse of baseball in south florida and still didn't really improve the future outlook on the field ... but at least they'll make more money, so I guess it's not all bad in a days work

maybe they'll bring back mark hendrickson to be the opening day starter again?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,193 posts, read 10,409,482 times
Reputation: 11208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Yeah, I think fil was right...my FA fantasy team is waaay overpriced.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,824 posts, read 18,553,245 times
Reputation: 18653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Yeah, I think fil was right...my FA fantasy team is waaay overpriced.
Hunter is nearly certain to be overpaid in '12. He is 36 years old and coming off one of those late career best seasons, but his offensive production was largely a product of batting .389 on balls in play, the second highest figure in the majors. His walks were down and his strikeouts were up. He will represent a good upgrade in RF for Detroit, he still generates value with his glove, but they are paying super premium dollars for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,789,297 times
Reputation: 6636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Hunter is nearly certain to be overpaid in '12.
Assuming that you mean '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
$ per WAR is expected to be around $6 million this season.
Hunter's WAR last 5 seasons
'12 = 5.3
'11 = 2.6
'10 = 3.7
'09 = 3.9
'08 = 2.6

Hunter would have to be less than a 2 WAR player to be overpaid. That's not likely.


Quote:
He is 36 years old and coming off one of those late career best seasons, but his offensive production was largely a product of batting .389 on balls in play, the second highest figure in the majors. His walks were down and his strikeouts were up. He will represent a good upgrade in RF for Detroit, he still generates value with his glove, but they are paying super premium dollars for it.
BABIP is a function of batted balls.
In 2012 Hunter hit line drives 22.6% of the time. League average is around 20%
He also hit 52% ground balls. League average is around 45%
He it about 25% fly balls. League average is around 35%.

Line drives have the highest BABIP, about .750. Ground balls have the 2nd highest, around .240. Fly balls have the lowest, around .150.

Given league average BABIPs for his batted ball rates, we'd expect a .338 BABIP out of Torii.

So, there should be some drop off, but it might not be that huge.

Bill James' projections have Hunter hitting:
.271/.336/.428 with a .323 BABIP. Which is a .331 wOBA

That's similar to what Angel Pagan (.338/.440 .334 wOBA) and Coco Crisp (.325/.418 .324 wOBA) hit this season. Pagan was a 5 WAR player and Crisp was a 3 WAR player.

Hunter is probably more of a 3 WAR player than a 5 WAR player, but that's a huge upgrade over Boesch and a reasonable to bargain signing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,824 posts, read 18,553,245 times
Reputation: 18653
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post

Hunter would have to be less than a 2 WAR player to be overpaid. That's not likely.



.
Hunter will turn 38 years old next July and will turn 39 in the second year of the contract. Does that not increase the probability of his not being able to earn the money?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top