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Old 11-29-2012, 08:11 AM
 
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Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa debut on Hall of Fame ballot - Chicago Sun-Times

Bonds, Clemens and Sosa.

You have 3 steroid users, 2 dispicable human beings and even the likeable Sosa has gone through extensive skin whitening....wow, way to go Sammy you are like a modern day Jackie Robinson.

A pretty sad day for baseball and of course Bonds and Clemens should be locks for the HOF....just not a feel good moment for the sport.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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If any of the writers are looking forward to a ceremony this coming summer where the usually dignified induction ceremonies are marred by protesters, they should vote for Clemens and Bonds.

Keeping them out as an object lesson for cheaters suits me fine, but even if they are inducted, it will not be the honor it typically is because they will remain perpetually controversial. Induction Day 2013 won't be about Barry's home runs or Rodger's strikeouts, it will be about PEDs. The media will talk of little else.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
If any of the writers are looking forward to a ceremony this coming summer where the usually dignified induction ceremonies are marred by protesters, they should vote for Clemens and Bonds.

Keeping them out as an object lesson for cheaters suits me fine, but even if they are inducted, it will not be the honor it typically is because they will remain perpetually controversial. Induction Day 2013 won't be about Barry's home runs or Rodger's strikeouts, it will be about PEDs. The media will talk of little else.
I really don't know how they can't vote for those 2 guys, PED's or not. Their resume is too strong and after discounting any PED resume inflation they are still 1st ballot HOFers. Sosa however.....not so much IMO.

I guess I just think of some of the greats over the years and they weren't all saints etc. but when I saw those guys listed up it's just an unfortunate clustering.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Status: "Warrior fan no matter the roster" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
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The main difference between a Bonds or Clemens and a Sosa or McGwire is a strong case could be made the former would've been great without PEDs. That's not a moral distinction, only one on the field.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
The main difference between a Bonds or Clemens and a Sosa or McGwire is a strong case could be made the former would've been great without PEDs. That's not a moral distinction, only one on the field.
I agree that sans PEDs, both Bonds and Clemens did enough to qualify for the HoF, and that it is not unreasonable to suspect that without PEDs, neither McGwire nor Sosa would be solid candidates.

However, the writers who do the voting seem to have decided that their portfolio includes making moral judgments and that HoF votes may be used to establish moral punishments.

Palmiero also falls into the Mac/Sammy class of w/o Peds, no fat numbers suspicion, but even if he had finished his career with 500 fewer hits and 75 fewer home runs, he still would have left behind a marginal candidacy career, a 2500 hit/450 home run player is going to get support, I would guess at least in the 25-30 % range. However, Palmiero has peaked in the voting at 12%, a very strong indication that he is being punished for his steroid use.

So, even if Bonds and Clemens would have been Hall worthy without PEDs use, they still will be facing that punitive instinct the writers are showing.

The relevant question isn't whether or not PEDs were the difference in someone having Hall worthy numbers, it is "Did they cheat or not?"
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Bonds and Clemens were great aside from PEDs and both are locks but might get skipped over a few years.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:39 PM
 
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Biggio is the only one I would vote for this year. Bonds and Clemens in a year or two, but not this year.

It may be a case of Bonds and Clemens not getting in this year and getting lower vote totals in the future. Some very good players have retired in the last few years.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Survey: Stars fall short in Hall vote


Quote:
NEW YORK -- Baseball's all-time home run king and the most decorated pitcher likely will be shut out of the Hall of Fame in January. A survey by The Associated Press shows that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, as well as slugger Sammy Sosa, don't have enough votes to get into Cooperstown.

With steroid scandals still very much on the minds of longtime members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America as they cast their ballots, the trio failed to muster even 50 percent support among the 112 voters contacted by the AP -- nearly one-fifth of those eligible to choose.

Candidates need 75 percent for election.
Survey shows Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa likely miss in first Hall of Fame vote - ESPN
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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These Guys get To Vote

From the same article linked above:
Quote:
"I will definitely vote for Bonds and Clemens. I still need to consider Sosa's resume," ESPN.com's Jim Caple said. "Steroid use has nothing to do with my vote. Steroids were not banned during the majority of their careers when they achieved the vast majority of their accomplishments. All we can go by is what they did on the field. If Gaylord Perry is in the Hall for violating a rule that was in place 40 years before his career began, how can you justify withholding a vote from someone for a rule that wasn't in effect? (And personally, I would rather face a pitcher on PEDs than a spitballer)."
"Steroid use has nothing to do with my vote."....i.e....."Nothing is wrong if you stick your head in the sand."

"All we can go by is what they did on the field"....Apparently Mr. Caple is unaware that HoF voters are provided with six criteria to consider, 50% of which are sportsmanship, character and integrity. Guess he didn't read the guidelines when his ballot arrived.

"If Gaylord Perry is in the Hall for violating a rule that was in place 40 years before his career began"....Perry is in the Hall for violating a rule? Not despite violating it?
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Back and Forth FRANCE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa debut on Hall of Fame ballot - Chicago Sun-Times

Bonds, Clemens and Sosa.

You have 3 steroid users, 2 dispicable human beings and even the likeable Sosa has gone through extensive skin whitening....wow, way to go Sammy you are like a modern day Jackie Robinson.

A pretty sad day for baseball and of course Bonds and Clemens should be locks for the HOF....just not a feel good moment for the sport.
I always liked Sosa, he was fun to watch. Really nice guy.
Sosa may have the best chance of getting in, maybe not on the first ballot but he may actually get in.

I personally don't care about the steroid issue. I go to games to be entertained, and for the most part I am.
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