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Old 03-27-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,794,076 times
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http://www.hardballtimes.com/images/...erek_Jeter.pdf

30 pages of stats and graphs discussing how Jeter's 2012 season was an aberration and, in fact, continued the precipitous decline he's been showing in recent years.

If 30 pages sound like a bit much...

...here's the Cliff's Notes

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Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,913 posts, read 18,566,118 times
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This is the other side of the same pathology which has elevated Jeter to such a lofty status. I suppose that it is natural that debunking efforts will typically target those who seem to have been the most overrated, but the extent of this particular effort hints of personalities which cannot abide the idea of Jeter receiving any undue credit.

I do not dispute their evidence or conclusions, but I do question their premise that Jeter's mini revival in '12 has everyone thinking that he is back in his prime. Aging superstars sometimes do turn in last hurrah spikes, but I'm unaware of any who then went on to keep it up as they got even older.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: NY
9,071 posts, read 15,035,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
This is the other side of the same pathology which has elevated Jeter to such a lofty status. I suppose that it is natural that debunking efforts will typically target those who seem to have been the most overrated, but the extent of this particular effort hints of personalities which cannot abide the idea of Jeter receiving any undue credit.

I do not dispute their evidence or conclusions, but I do question their premise that Jeter's mini revival in '12 has everyone thinking that he is back in his prime. Aging superstars sometimes do turn in last hurrah spikes, but I'm unaware of any who then went on to keep it up as they got even older.
The only example I can think of would be Barry Bonds, but we all know why that was...
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
The only example I can think of would be Barry Bonds, but we all know why that was...
I had thought of the Bonds exception, but realized that if I mentioned it I would also have to raise the steroids issue and I didn't want this thread veering off onto that path.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
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Obviously as players get older they can show signs of their past but most don't get better or maintain their abilities for the long haul. Mariano Rivera might be one of the closest players to keeping it going but he has been a little more prone to injuries as he has aged. Whats not taken into consideration is what Jeter does as a leader and how he influences others on the team. With age comes experience and maybe he can mold his replacement.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: NY
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Rivera is a good example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I had thought of the Bonds exception, but realized that if I mentioned it I would also have to raise the steroids issue and I didn't want this thread veering off onto that path.
Maybe to stay clear of that issue (also why I didn't mention it by name) I could throw Satchel Paige out there. Of course, it is a little hard to analyze since he never got into the big leagues until his 40's.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,913 posts, read 18,566,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
Rivera is a good example.



Maybe to stay clear of that issue (also why I didn't mention it by name) I could throw Satchel Paige out there. Of course, it is a little hard to analyze since he never got into the big leagues until his 40's.
Willie McCovey turned in a classic example of the last hurrah spike. His last full season all star year with the Giants was 1970 at age 33. Then he started to get hurt a lot and his performance dwindled over the next few years and at age 36 they traded him to San Diego. There he had an okay year, a bad year and then a terrible year at age 38 where the Padres released him, he was picked up by the A's who also released him and it looked like his career was over.

The Giants resigned him in '77 and everyone was viewing this as a courtesy sort of thing...Willie will pinch hit or be a good clubhouse influence, but no one thought he still had playing value. But at age 39 McCovey posted an .867 OPS with 28 bombs in 141 games, the most he had played in a season since 1969, his MVP year.

Then at age 40, with expectations raised somewhat, McCovey turned back into a pumpkin and posted a .722 OPS. He refused to retire despite numerous hints from the club and the media and was around for half a season in '79 before his .586 OPS caused his retirement.

I am anticipating that pumpkin effect for Jeter this year.
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