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Old 07-22-2013, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,205 posts, read 10,441,159 times
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Braun is a bum, just like Clemens and Bonds. The latter two (among others) are lucky they played a decade earlier where they didn't have to actually pay for breaking the rules and lying about it afterwards. The MLB is strutting because they got him to cut a deal with them rather than going through the union, which makes them no different from a detective who's happy he just got a signed statement from a perp before the lawyer showed up.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,210 posts, read 18,619,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
MLB is strutting because they got him to cut a deal with them rather than going through the union, which makes them no different from a detective who's happy he just got a signed statement from a perp before the lawyer showed up.
If MLB didn't have Braun dead to rights with damning evidence, Braun would be fighting this just like he did his positive test. His accepting the penalty while still maintaining his innocence is a re-run of the Pete Rose act. Pete continued to deny gambling on baseball but for some reason accepted a lifetime ban for gambling on baseball. Maybe 15 years of lies later Braun will 'fess up in exchange for some pile of money like Rose did.

Both pr statements, from the Union and from MLB, reflect the end of a negotiating session where the last part of the deal was "We will coordinate media statements to the least detriment of all involved." That Pollyanna babble certainly masked what was some behind the scenes hardball. I imagine it going..

MLB's Lawyer: "Look at these documents, combined with Braun's positive test two years ago....who do you think is going to believe him now?"
Braun's Lawyer: "So what sort of deal are we talking about?"
MLB's Lawyer: "Braun accepts a suspension for the rest of the season, that's about 65 games plus any in the post season."
Braun's Lawyer: "And if we decide to fight it?"
MLB's Lawyer: "Then any penalty will be delayed, but when we prevail we will suspend him for the entire 2014 season."
Braun's Lawyer: "The whole season? Let me see those documents again. Okay, it does look kinda bad. Now, if Ryan accepts the penalty, will he also be required to make any sort of confession? I think he is willing to roll over on the penalty part, but my client still wants to insist he is innocent."
MLB's Lawyer: "Does he really think he will be fooling anyone with that? Saying he is innocent while accepting the punishment?"
Braun's Lawyer: "Well, you know how these public figures are about their reputations. Remember Spiro Agnew pleading nolo contendere before resigning from office? Lemme run this by my client and get back to you."
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Old 07-22-2013, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Lincecum lost his no hitter to the first batter he faced tonight who doubled. Apparently eight days of rest was not enough, or perhaps was too much, for Timmy got creamed. 3 and 1/3 innings, nine hits, three of those homers, and eight runs.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
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Ouch; 2008 Lincecum, meet 2012 Lincecum.
Braun does seem to have the same narcissistic personality disorder as Rose...
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,466 posts, read 3,155,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Ouch; 2008 Lincecum, meet 2012 Lincecum.
Braun does seem to have the same narcissistic personality disorder as Rose...
No but his personality is closer to Lance Armstrong. Dino Larenzzi or whatever his name is did screw up a few years ago, but he's not a chemist and he did not tamper with Brauns sample. His life was turned upside down all the while Braun is collecting fat checks. Screw Braun, embarrass him like Palmeiro.
The other thing is no one liked Bonds or Clemens before or after steroids, guys like Pettitte and Giambi were able to get some respect back by admitting to it.

Lets leave Rose out of this, he broke a rule that was in place long before steroids were thought of.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James420 View Post
No but his personality is closer to Lance Armstrong. Dino Larenzzi or whatever his name is did screw up a few years ago, but he's not a chemist and he did not tamper with Brauns sample. His life was turned upside down all the while Braun is collecting fat checks. Screw Braun, embarrass him like Palmeiro.
The other thing is no one liked Bonds or Clemens before or after steroids, guys like Pettitte and Giambi were able to get some respect back by admitting to it.

Lets leave Rose out of this, he broke a rule that was in place long before steroids were thought of.
The congruency between Rose and Braun is in accepting the penalty for a rules violation while simultaneously trying to maintain innocence.

None of these people, including Pettitte and Giambi, deserve any drop of praise. Both only admitted to use after they were caught, and both made only the most minimal possible confessions. The only players who have been candid without first having gotten caught have been Ken Caminiti and Jose Canseco. They spilled the beans on themselves without prompting, in the case of Canseco, he was stupid enough to think that he could brag about it and not be damned.

Everyone else has lied, lied and lied, only 'fessing up when caught red handed. McGwire lied for years before coming clean, and then he did so only because it was necessary before he could get the coaching job he wanted. Arod limited his confession to just the Texas years and that now obviously was a crock. Bonds and Clemens have lied under oath. Palmiero lied to Congress and Sammy Sosa suddenly and inexplicably forgot how to speak English before that same body.

And I would imagine that there are numerous players who lied, are still lying, and have gotten away with it because they were never caught. Can any of us be certain that Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, or Edgar Martinez never used? Were Ellis Burks and Andres Galaraga playing clean? Dante Bichette? Jeff Kent? Bernie Williams?
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Default Kemp Says Braun Should Forfeit MVP Award

Ryan Braun should lose MVP award, Matt Kemp says - ESPN Los Angeles

Quote:
Asked Tuesday whether the award should be taken away from Braun, Kemp responded: "I mean, yeah, I do," pausing and adding, "I feel like it should be, but that's not for me to decide, you know?"

Kemp said people feel "betrayed" by Braun.

"I'm disappointed," Kemp said. "I talked to Braun before any of this happened, we had conversations and I considered him a friend. I don't think anybody likes to be lied to and I feel like a lot of people have felt betrayed. That's not just me, that's the whole Brewers organization, a lot of his teammates. I think a lot of people feel that way."
I am in sympathy with Kemp's position, however, I do not see the justice in stripping this single MVP award unless the same corrections are made for the other PEDs winners...and there have been a lot.

Let us identify the steroid era as 1995-2005. If we postulate as the standard, any player who has tested postive, had his name appear on the 2003 list of positive tests, was named in the Mitchell Report, confessed to use or was named by Jose Canseco in one of his books, and we further recognize that Bonds' PEDs use did not begin until 1999, then 14 of the 22 MVP awards distributed during those eleven years went to PEDs players.

Six of those fourteen awards went to Bonds and Arod. The others: Juan Gonzalez (2)(named by Canseco) Ken Caminiti (confessed), Mo Vaughn (Mitchell Report), Sammy Sosa (2003 positive test), Ivan Rodriguez (named by Canseco), Jason Giambi (confessed), and Miguel Tejada (named by Canseco.)

If we remove those awards and give them to the runners up, assuming that they were clean, then the MVPs would be:
1995 AL...Albert Belle
1996 AL...Belle again, he finished third but Arod was second. NL..Mike Piazza
1998 AL..Nomar Garciaparra NL..Moises Alou (finished third but McGwire was second)
1999 AL..Pedro Martinez NL..Jeff Bagwell
2000 AL..Frank Thomas
2001 NL..Ugh..the first three finishers were Bonds, Sosa and the never caught but certainly suspicious Luis Gonzalez. Gonzalez would get it by default.
2002 AL Alfonso Soriano (finished third behind Tejad and Arod) NL..Albert Pujols
2003 AL Carlos Delgado NL..Albert Pujols
2004 NL..Adrian Beltre
2005 AL Vladimir Guererro (finished third behind Arod and the positive testing David Ortiz)

The biggest beneficiaries would be Albert Pujols (goes from three MVP awards to five) and Albert Belle who would have two which he didn't win. Of course given Belle's character, despite his never having been caught with PEDs, I sure would not bet any money that he played clean. There were rumors about Bagwell as well, but no evidence of any sort of which I am aware. As for Luis Gonzalez, his 2001 performance betrays him. Players whose careers are the caliber of a Jeff Leonard or Cliff Floyd, don't suddenly have Jimmie Foxx style seasons at age 33. Apart from 2001, for his entire career Gonzalez only ever received MVP votes in two other seasons, finishing 18th in 1999 and 25th in 2003.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,375 posts, read 21,948,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
...And I would imagine that there are numerous players who lied, are still lying, and have gotten away with it because they were never caught. Can any of us be certain that Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, or Edgar Martinez never used? Were Ellis Burks and Andres Galaraga playing clean? Dante Bichette? Jeff Kent? Bernie Williams?
I've always suspected Eddie Gaedel was up to something
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,210 posts, read 18,619,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
I've always suspected Eddie Gaedel was up to something
I understand that he was six feet tall before starting in on reverse steroids.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,210 posts, read 18,619,681 times
Reputation: 18760
Default The BS Just Gets Piled Higher and Higher

Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers says he will speak when he is 'able to' - ESPN

Quote:
Suspended slugger Ryan Braun released a statement Thursday through the Milwaukee Brewers' public relations department stating that he will speak to the media once he's allowed. It was the first comment made by Braun since being suspended Monday for the remainder of the 2013 season for violations of Major League Baseball's drug policy.

"See Mark [Attanasio's] comments or reference what he said," the statement read. "When I am able to, I will speak.

"I know it was difficult for everybody, but I was not, and still am not, legally allowed to say anything yet."

"I think [Braun] has to get to the point where he can actually speak about this," Attanasio said. "Major League Baseball is in the midst of an ongoing investigation. He is obviously now cooperating with baseball. He is cooperating in such a way that he is going to let them conclude or get further into the investigation before he talks."

Braun is "legally" prohibited by what? By whom? This is Braun lying again. I'm sure his attorney advised him not to say anything until some statement was prepared for him by that attorney and probably some image consultant from a pr firm. Of course that is advice, not something which carries the force of law.

As for the claptrap about his not speaking being as a way to assist the ongoing investigation....huh? If Braun wanted to assist the ongoing investigation he could start ratting out other users, he could make a full and clean public confession...but how does him remaining silent advance the investigation in any manner? How would his confessing retard it?

They are blowing smoke up our collective rears at a record rate with this Braun business.
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