U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-07-2013, 09:35 AM
 
4,510 posts, read 4,120,549 times
Reputation: 1501

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I presented the numerical evidence for the damage done to the record books by steroids, can anyone produce any evidence which suggests that amphetamine use had a congruent impact? These are not the same things and should not be introduced into some argument about how damaging PEDs have been. Amphetamines make you less sleepy, more alert. A player who didn't get any sleep because he was out chasing skirt all night, might be restored to normal energy levels by some greenies, but he isn't gaining any competitive or athletic advantage. Amphetamines do not increase strength and bat speed. Some player popping to help him get past his hangover isn't going to hit 73 home runs in a season as a consequence.
I know this - you can run a lot faster on speed than without it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-07-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,256 posts, read 18,629,386 times
Reputation: 18779
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
I know this - you can run a lot faster on speed than without it.
Not true. It can make you think that you are running a lot faster, but that is the drug's illusion. It can increase endurance, sometimes dangerously so in that the runner on speed mentally believes he or she has great reserves of energy to the point of over stressing the heart. On speed you could possibly improve your time in distance running because of the elimination of mental fatigue.

Endurance running is not one of those skills which is especially useful in a baseball game, amphetamines are not going to cause you to get to first base any faster. The pitcher might benefit in that he is the one most subject to fatigue, but again we are talking a danger area. A pitcher on speed might develop the belief that he has an iron arm that can throw at maximum velocity for as long as he wants. Normal care is not exercised and damage to the arm results.

More importantly, as noted previously, steroids and speed are not remotely the same thing in terms of imparting a competitive advantage. Even if they were, that others cheated in the past by using amphetamines, is hardly a reason to excuse other cheaters. We would never release a caught criminal on the grounds that other have committed the same crime in the past and gotten away with it....therefore we must let these people get away with it? We didn't catch Boog Powell taking speed in 1971, therefore we are not allowed to do anything about Alex Rodriguez using PEDs in 2013?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
72,142 posts, read 83,817,792 times
Reputation: 41917
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Take HGH? Hell, anybody can go on the web and get that stuff, and there's no way it makes a great player out of a mediocre one. I'm have never been an big A-Rod fan, but his whole deal makes me want to stop watching baseball.
If you don't know I am not sure why anyone of us should waste our time explaining it to you. What he did is against the league rules for starters. But worse than that: he got caught once, apologized, said he was wrong, he was ashamed and he would never do anything like that again. Hello???? if this was the first time, big deal, it wasn't. He should be ban for playing, which is pretty much what is going to happen. Because of his age, his glory days are over. He might play in another 2 years, but will he be worth anything?

You mention there have always been drugs in sports, that isn't even the point: the point, which you want to overlook is: he broke the rules and it wasn't the first time: end of story!!!

Mandanly6: no it isn't baseball's fault: it is the fault of the person who took the drug.

Last edited by nmnita; 08-07-2013 at 12:00 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,840,456 times
Reputation: 16147
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post

Mandanly6: no it isn't baseball's fault: it is the fault of the person who took the drug.
I believe baseball turned a blind eye when they needing ratings. They were enablers. So I feel they deserve a portion of the blame.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,256 posts, read 18,629,386 times
Reputation: 18779
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
I believe baseball turned a blind eye when they needing ratings. They were enablers. So I feel they deserve a portion of the blame.
We could suspend Bud Selig.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 05:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,840,456 times
Reputation: 16147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
We could suspend Bud Selig.
I wish "we" could.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,256 posts, read 18,629,386 times
Reputation: 18779
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
I wish "we" could.
The owners are unlikely to punish themselves, and besides, a lot of the current owners are post steroid age. Of the thirty clubs, sixteen of them have changed ownership since the year 2000. The Astros, Dodgers, Rangers and Padres have changed ownership in this decade.

Bud is the logical scapegoat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 06:06 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,077,153 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
It isn't just about getting caught using. They are claiming he tried to hamper the investigation, buy people off, etc. That is more than what they have on the other guys.
Melky bought a website and then fabricated evidence that he had brought a legal supplement and had gotton a false positive from said supplement. He got 50 games standard for first time offenders. This is a clear witch hunt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 06:17 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,077,153 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
If you don't know I am not sure why anyone of us should waste our time explaining it to you. What he did is against the league rules for starters. But worse than that: he got caught once, apologized, said he was wrong, he was ashamed and he would never do anything like that again. Hello???? if this was the first time, big deal, it wasn't. He should be ban for playing, which is pretty much what is going to happen. Because of his age, his glory days are over. He might play in another 2 years, but will he be worth anything?

You mention there have always been drugs in sports, that isn't even the point: the point, which you want to overlook is: he broke the rules and it wasn't the first time: end of story!!!

Mandanly6: no it isn't baseball's fault: it is the fault of the person who took the drug.
This is of course overdramatic. People have been using steriods in baseball for the past 15 years. That is pretty much fact. Baseball has not been a clean game in the past 15 years and that's just the way it is. It's not like Arod made baseball like this. It is even reasonable to say that somewhere between 60-80% of players were using steriods and if you go through the best players from best to worst you might say 5 or 6 people before you get to someone who wasn't juicing.
The penalty for using steriods for a first time offender is 50 games, and that is exactly what he should get. You are right that he broke the rules, and written in the rules are the punishment and that is in black and white. 50 games. Baseball's punishment of 211 games is absurd.

Last edited by jdm2008; 08-07-2013 at 06:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 06:35 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,077,153 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F S View Post
Let's face it. Bud Selig hates the Yankees so much that he is going to punish ALL Yankees players more than other players.

O.K. That's one ridiculous conspiracy theory. Maybe you can come up with another one - unless you're a Yankees fan and you actually believe that to be true. If that's the case, then I truly feel sorry for you.
Bud Selig clearly wanted to punish Arod more than all other players. This is a fact. Which is born out by the fact that Arod received a punished 4 times the punishment clearly spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement for 1st time offenders. The punishment for Arod given was 211 games, the punishment according to the collective bargaining agreement for a first infraction is 50 games. It is also spelled out by the ridiculous, bizarre and embarrassing dog and pony show of the last several weeks of baseball continually bluffing that they would suspend Arod("tommorow" for several weeks) for life in the media and them leaking private conversations.
Arod used steroids they should have looked at the evidence and handed down a suspension that was appropriate. Simple. But no of course they didn't do this. They dragged this fiasco out for weeks leaking false information, bluffing, leaking false information attributed to Arod and in general embarrassing themselves. You cannot tell me this is the norm for players suspended for steroids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top