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Old 09-26-2013, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,022 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18680

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
The economy has not declined in the last year.
Hardly relevant to your position that the decline since 2007 has been caused by a poor fan reaction to policies designed to enhance owner revenues.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,233,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Hardly relevant to your position that the decline since 2007 has been caused by a poor fan reaction to policies designed to enhance owner revenues.
That is not my position. In fact I have stated a categorical position at all. You, however, have. Yet you expect me to provide supporting evidence of a position I didn't take while you provide none for the position you've taken. In fact, to the extent that fan interest as measured by attendance and TV ratings serves as a reasonable proxy for revenue, the available evidence runs contrary to your stated position. Now, whether that decline is a result in whole or in part of fans being tired of the league dicking around with the playoff system is an open question, yet one you have affirmatively claimed is not the case.

What I expressed is not specific to baseball or sports; it's a basic business principle that you can only bank on your customers' goodwill so much before they no longer respond or respond negatively. As a specific example in baseball, the new owners of the Cubs have learned the hard way that, yes there is a point at which Cubs fans and baseball tourists will stop filling the stadium and that you can't charge Boston Red Sox prices for tickets when there's a AAA-caliber team on the field.

As a thought experiment, imagine if the rules were changed so that, say, 18 or 20 of the 30 teams made the playoffs. Would that generate more fan interest, or would the prospect of a playoff berth lose so much of its luster that fans no longer care whether their team makes it to the post-season?

Last edited by Drover; 09-26-2013 at 03:05 PM..
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,022 posts, read 18,583,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
That is not my position. In fact I have stated a categorical position at all. ?
You certainly implied it by writing "Get back to me when attendance reaches its 2007 peak." as a response to my stating that cynicism over revenue generating schemes wasn't causing a drop in attendance. If we were not to conclude that you thought that you were presenting evidence of that fan decline, and that you were associating it with the reason you had presented, then what were we supposed to conclude? Anything else would be senseless.

So, at least take responsibility for your position, you wrote those words not me. And if it wasn't your intention to convey what seems to me to be the only meaning a rational person would take from such a statement, then you should have exercised more care in choosing your words.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,233,190 times
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I love the way you zeroed in on that one statement and completely ignored the rest of what I said.

Like I said, I'm not the one who made a categorical statement. You are. Don't ask me to defend a non-categorical position with evidence while you refuse to provide any for the categorical position you have taken.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,022 posts, read 18,583,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post


I love the way you zeroed in on that one statement and completely ignored the rest of what I said.

Like I said, I'm not the one who made a categorical statement. You are. Don't ask me to defend a non-categorical position with evidence while you refuse to provide any for the categorical position you have taken.
Do I need to provide you with evidence that the 2008 downturn in the US economy had an adverse effect on attendance at sporting events? Would that be because you do not believe that this is true and think that there was no relationship between the decline of attendance and the bum economy?
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,233,190 times
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:49 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,684 posts, read 8,589,783 times
Reputation: 19893
To me, the playoff system is what it is. We can't change that.

I'm watching the Braves these days, and they desperately need home field advantage, which they have not locked in yet. IMPORTANT weekend for the Braves and some others as well.
At any rate the National League has become less than hum-drum. There are several excited teams and all we can do is trust that our team - whoever they are - will prevail.

With regard to attendance, I think baseball is just out of favor these days. NASCAR had its day in the sun, baseball had its day, and now (around here) it's college fuhball.
Some teams are making money, some are not. But in the field of college sports, almost none of them are profitable. Surprising, isn't it?
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: NYntarctica
11,436 posts, read 6,412,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
With regard to attendance, I think baseball is just out of favor these days. NASCAR had its day in the sun, baseball had its day, and now (around here) it's college fuhball.
Some teams are making money, some are not. But in the field of college sports, almost none of them are profitable. Surprising, isn't it?
Fortunately, NYC is still stuck in the baseball phase. A lot of people obsess over Victor Cruz and Eli Manning, but even more people care about Jeter and Rivera.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,684 posts, read 8,589,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Fortunately, NYC is still stuck in the baseball phase. A lot of people obsess over Victor Cruz and Eli Manning, but even more people care about Jeter and Rivera.
Dang! Maybe people in New york are a bit more sane than I had imagined.

Rivera! Hall of Fame, next week!
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
6,546 posts, read 4,496,603 times
Reputation: 2478
This was a 2013 thread but you can make the case for 2015 being an NL snoozer as well.

Cards, Pirates & Cubs will all be in out of the central with the 2 that lose out on the central division title playing each other in the Wildcard game.
Dodgers are 3.5 up on the Giants in the West, while the Mets are 6.5 up on the Nats. Giants are about 4 or 5 out of the Wildcard.
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