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Old 10-05-2013, 11:00 AM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,851,918 times
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I look on at baseball and where are the Ripkins? Gerhigs?

We have a host of PED abusers, liars, Clemens & Bonds (nuff said) and even once likeable Sammy Sosa doesn't like being so black and is skin bleaching.

I'm not saying there aren't some decent guys to follow in baseball it's just the top tier guys of recent memory are mostly arse-hats.

Now A-rod is going down swinging for doing something that only a couple hundred other guys have been doing for a loooong time....but they got a pass as baseball swept their dirt under the rug.

I look at how MLB has been run the last 20-30 years compared to NFL, NBA etc. and even the NHL has been better run.

Are they ever going to stop the bleeding or is MLB just going to keep sliding further and further down the tubes. Before you answer, when is the last time you saw a group of kids playing a pick-up game of baseball somewhere?
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:59 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,184,022 times
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Saw kids playing a pick-up ball game here yesterday. Just like I see almost every day it isn't raining during the summer.

Don't concentrate on the morons like A-roid, & Clemens and there are plenty of "top tier" guys who are good role models and likable guys. These are the next Ripkins, Gerhigs, and Clementes along with plenty more who play the game.
Miguel Cabrera who won the batting triple Crown last year after a 45 year dry spell in winners.
Torii Hunter who is a leader no matter the ball club he is with.
Raul Ibanez, is involved both on the field and off.
Joe Mauer the ONLY catcher in MLB history to win 3 batting titles.
Curtis Granderson who was named one of MLB's ambassadors in his Rookie season continues to be a great player .

There are a LOT more great players who are still playing and breaking records while giving back to the cities, towns and areas they play in. Who go out of their way to give back a portion they have been blessed to get from playing ball at such a high level. Players who don't make headlines all the time because of what they do, unless they are close to or just broke a long standing record. Then they fade from the news because they just continue on without a lot of drama and we all know that isn't newsworthy. Look at pitcher Max Scherzer who started so hot this season with his win streak. Not real newsworthy because he INSISTED that the record he was putting up had little to nothing to do with him, it was a team effort. Every time a reporter asked him about getting close to another record he just passed it off as a team effort and how he was lucky to pitch for a bunch of hitters who won games for him.

The crackpots like A-roid you hear so much about because bad news sells, and they are more bad news than even the most cynical sports writer could conjure up in a fantasy. You have to take a look at how sports are covered now as opposed to how they were covered just 25 years ago or more. Back then the news was the GOOD guys and the ones like A-Rod were ignored or passed off as the black sheep of the game. The quality players in ALL sports were held up as examples of what kids should strive to emulate. Now though the sporting news points out and concentrated on the bad boys of the game while mostly ignoring the good, decent men and women who hold themselves to a high standard both during their respective games and off the field/court/pitch/track/etc.... It isn't just baseball that does it either. Look at cycling, all you hear is that hopped up Lance Armstrong, not the quality riders who have to ride and try to restore the reputation of the entire sport. Football had its own pet idiot a few years ago in the form of Michael Vick. Soccer had/has Fernando Torres, and the list goes on and on and on for every sport. Until the sports media stops concentrating on the negative and gets back to the positive side of players and role models it isn't going to change.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:26 PM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,851,918 times
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You can say that but since baseball won't come clean on the HUNDREDS that tested positive, we can only assume. I don't know how you can dismiss it as "bad news sells" when Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Conseco, clemens, arod and....you know I could type a hundred more bit names.....got caught. It's not some small sample, it's MOST of the elite of MLB.

The issue you are facing is that how many of the guy you are listing will eventually test positive?

A couple years ago you could cite Braun, now not so much.

I NEVER see kids playing baseball around here pick-up. I used to as a kid.....
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:15 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,184,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
You can say that but since baseball won't come clean on the HUNDREDS that tested positive, we can only assume. I don't know how you can dismiss it as "bad news sells" when Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Conseco, clemens, arod and....you know I could type a hundred more bit names.....got caught. It's not some small sample, it's MOST of the elite of MLB.

The issue you are facing is that how many of the guy you are listing will eventually test positive?

A couple years ago you could cite Braun, now not so much.

I NEVER see kids playing baseball around here pick-up. I used to as a kid.....
The same can be said for ALL pro level sports about the use of PED's in the past and at the highest levels. As well as the sweeping it under the rug for years and years. As for the "hundreds" more top players you can type right now that use... go ahead name them. AS they get caught, they prosecute and punish now, so if you have a list of a hundred more players that are using PED's please do pass that on the MLB, we need to end the practice. To single out Baseball as being the only one to cover such things is disingenuous at best.

How many of the current players in ALL pro sports may test positive in the future is a real lame strawman to toss out. No-body can know that or even guess it for ANY sport.

Your area doesn't play pick-up baseball... mine does. Both are right, just two different areas of the Country. You not seeing pick-up games being played doesn't mean they are not still a part of kids lives everywhere. I wouldn't be so bold as to say that because I do see them playing ALL THE TIME it must mean all places still have pick-up games going.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:54 PM
 
Location: A Land Not So Far Away
3,956 posts, read 2,819,777 times
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A-Roid is saying that MLB "damaged his reputation"??! Sorry, but he did it all by himself. No one else had to do it for him.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,130 posts, read 18,599,788 times
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This is bluff, a pr tactic designed to make the public think that Arod has been persecuted, an attempt to make the criminal into the victim.

Either the case will be settled out of court, dismissed outright by the judge, or dropped by Rodriguez before it can get to court. The reason is that Rodriguez cannot afford to have himself cross examined under oath. He would be asked straight forward questions about his PEDs use and be faced with a choice of admission, or lying under oath for which he would be liable to perjury prosecution. If he admits to everything, he has sunk his "damaged reputation" case. If he lies, he risks a perjury arrest and trial.

Rodriguez understands this, his lawyers would have explained it to him a thousand times.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:07 PM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,851,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
The same can be said for ALL pro level sports about the use of PED's in the past and at the highest levels. As well as the sweeping it under the rug for years and years. As for the "hundreds" more top players you can type right now that use... go ahead name them. AS they get caught, they prosecute and punish now, so if you have a list of a hundred more players that are using PED's please do pass that on the MLB, we need to end the practice. To single out Baseball as being the only one to cover such things is disingenuous at best.

How many of the current players in ALL pro sports may test positive in the future is a real lame strawman to toss out. No-body can know that or even guess it for ANY sport.

Your area doesn't play pick-up baseball... mine does. Both are right, just two different areas of the Country. You not seeing pick-up games being played doesn't mean they are not still a part of kids lives everywhere. I wouldn't be so bold as to say that because I do see them playing ALL THE TIME it must mean all places still have pick-up games going.
List of Major League Baseball players named in the Mitchell Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess you missed this?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:10 PM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,851,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
This is bluff, a pr tactic designed to make the public think that Arod has been persecuted, an attempt to make the criminal into the victim.

Either the case will be settled out of court, dismissed outright by the judge, or dropped by Rodriguez before it can get to court. The reason is that Rodriguez cannot afford to have himself cross examined under oath. He would be asked straight forward questions about his PEDs use and be faced with a choice of admission, or lying under oath for which he would be liable to perjury prosecution. If he admits to everything, he has sunk his "damaged reputation" case. If he lies, he risks a perjury arrest and trial.

Rodriguez understands this, his lawyers would have explained it to him a thousand times.
It's just sad that once upon a time the top baseball players were looked up to and yeah, some were jackasses and cheats but they were the minority....but it seems like so many of the elite have gotten caught dirty the last 10-15 years....not a handful but almost a majority (more than half).

Basically, pull up the all-star roster from the late 1990's etc. and just scroll down the list....it's not pretty.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:08 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,184,022 times
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Didn't miss the report at all. Did you miss the part where inclusion on the list did NOT automatically mean any illegal activity took place? Or maybe the part that some of the names were mentioned/listed in an entirely different context than use of PED's?

It is perfectly clear you don't like or even care about Baseball, so you look for the negative only. This thread is more than enough proof of that. You mention that "Hundreds" of players could be named... The Mitchell report has mid 80's if I recall correctly, couple that with the latest and you are still barely at 100, where are the others to make up the "hundreds?"

The NFL and the Players union are talking about easing the penalties of a positive test for Adderall, does that mean they don't take PED use as serious as the MLB? It would sure seem to indicate that exactly.
NFL doesn't care?
MLB treated harder than NFL for PED use
NFL doesn't even test for HGH now HGH and other common PED's only show up through blood tests, NOT urine testing which is what the NFL uses at this point.
FIFA World Soccer on doping
PED's in World Football (soccer)
NBA maybe?

There are hundreds and hundreds of articles, reports and testimony about doping in other sports at the same or greater levels of MLB. You may feel that MLB has disgraced itself, but I would hope you also think that about EVERY professional level sport in the US and around the World because they ALL have a PED problem. The difference in level of acceptance and reporting is one of the reasons MLB is in the news so much. Shoot some sports don't even actively even test regularly. Time to get off the soapbox against MLB and start asking why YOUR favorite sport (whatever sport that may be) doesn't take PED usage and testing as seriously as MLB does. About the only sport that tests and examines players for PED as stringent as MLB is professional Cycling (thanks to Lance Armstrong) Live Strong: Live Doped
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:21 AM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Didn't miss the report at all. Did you miss the part where inclusion on the list did NOT automatically mean any illegal activity took place? Or maybe the part that some of the names were mentioned/listed in an entirely different context than use of PED's?

It is perfectly clear you don't like or even care about Baseball, so you look for the negative only. This thread is more than enough proof of that. You mention that "Hundreds" of players could be named... The Mitchell report has mid 80's if I recall correctly, couple that with the latest and you are still barely at 100, where are the others to make up the "hundreds?"

The NFL and the Players union are talking about easing the penalties of a positive test for Adderall, does that mean they don't take PED use as serious as the MLB? It would sure seem to indicate that exactly.
NFL doesn't care?
MLB treated harder than NFL for PED use
NFL doesn't even test for HGH now HGH and other common PED's only show up through blood tests, NOT urine testing which is what the NFL uses at this point.
FIFA World Soccer on doping
PED's in World Football (soccer)
NBA maybe?

There are hundreds and hundreds of articles, reports and testimony about doping in other sports at the same or greater levels of MLB. You may feel that MLB has disgraced itself, but I would hope you also think that about EVERY professional level sport in the US and around the World because they ALL have a PED problem. The difference in level of acceptance and reporting is one of the reasons MLB is in the news so much. Shoot some sports don't even actively even test regularly. Time to get off the soapbox against MLB and start asking why YOUR favorite sport (whatever sport that may be) doesn't take PED usage and testing as seriously as MLB does. About the only sport that tests and examines players for PED as stringent as MLB is professional Cycling (thanks to Lance Armstrong) Live Strong: Live Doped
You disputed I could even come up with 100 and when I did.....you tried to completely change the point of discussion.

It's not that you have a Lance Armstrong....you have dozens of them, many of the biggest names from the era.

And if you think I'm being unfairly mean, then look at the HOF balloting. They seem a little miffed as well.
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